Sunday, July 17, 2016

Child Abuse, the Nazis and the Catholic Church





Pope Pius XII and Adolf Hitler 


The following are extracts from a discussion on the Politics.ie website on the topic of Child Abuse, the Nazis and the Catholic Church. The name of the topic may appear to be strange but in fact Nazi Germany in the 1930s made allegations of child abuse a major theme of their propaganda against the Catholic Church in Germany.

Quotations are from Richard Evans, "The Third Reich in Power", Michael Burleigh, "Sacred Causes 
: Religion and Politics from the European Dictators to Al Qaeda" AND from the man himself "Hitler's Table Talk" as noted mainly by Martin Bormann.

Among other things, I was debating with a contributor,  "LongLiberal" who described the Catholic Church as "this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation". I pointed out that apart from the word "Nazi", his description could have come straight out of Julius Streicher's  anti-Semitic rants in Der Sturmer. Streicher also accused the Jews of murdering children - allegations that were identical to those made by Irish journalists (and at least one politician) against Catholic priests, nuns and brothers. Anyway my discussion with this particular "liberal" concluded as follows:

Regarding your quotations from "Mein Kamph" and Hitler's public speeches, do you understand that the book "Hitler's Table Talk" consists of officially recorded notes of his private conversations with his confidantes at the dinner table during the years 1941 - 44. (Martin Bormann was one of the note-takers.) These represent proof of Hitler's REAL views. Regarding his PUBLIC statements - he made an awful lot about his desire for peace; do you believe those?

Rory Connor
2 August 2016
Politics.ie History Forum: "Nazis, The Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

5th January 2012, 11:22 AM
Seanie Lemass 

Nazis, the Catholic Church and sexual abuse.

Was reading Richard Evans The Third Reich in Power which has interesting material on how the Nazis treated the Catholic Church.

First of all it is clear that the Catholics (and the Catholic Centre Party) were regarded after the Communists and Socialists as the main opposition and the main targets of bringing the whole of German society under totalitarian control. One third of Catholic priests were imprisoned by the regime. 

What is also interesting is that the main propaganda instrument used against the Catholic Church was allegations of child abuse. As we know such things did take place in other jurisdictions and no doubt in Germany as well, but the allegations were grossly exaggerated in order to justify the repression.

Are there parallels in this country? Are the instances of child sexual abuse by Catholic clerics which appear to be no higher than among any other cohort of the population being used as the basis for removing its influence from education and other spheres of life? 

For comparative purposes, the Nazis themselves already had highly abusive institutions within their own apparatus. There were several rapes and murders of members of the Hitler Youth on camps during their campaign against the CC.

It was also shown that half of girls fostered in Sweden in the 1950s and 60s were abused and there are over half a million cases of children believed to be at risk reported in Britain every year. 

So is the concentration on the Catholic Church ideologically driven? And if so for what purpose?


6th January 2012, 07:19 PM

Child Abuse, the Nazis and the Catholic Church

The following is from a previous post of mine on the History Forum
Nazis vs Catholic paedophiles

CHILD ABUSE, THE NAZIS AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

The following is an extract from Michael Burleigh's book 'Sacred Causes: Religion and Politics from the European Dictators to Al Qaeda'. Burleigh is a leading historian who has taught at Oxford, the London School of Economics etc. His book explores the attitude of the churches to totalitarian dictatorships and the attitude of such dictators as Hitler and Stalin to the Catholic Church in particular.

"[In Nazi Germany in the 1930s] the state used various forms of chicanery to close Catholic homes and institutions. These ranged from adversely changing their charitable tax status to using the Gestapo to suborn children to make accusations of sexual abuse against those in charge of them.

"Between September 1933 and March 1937 [the Vatican] secretary of State Pacelli signed over 70 notes and memoranda protesting against Nazi violations of the Concordat [1]. The Nazis almost immediately began chipping away at the autonomy of Catholic lay organisations which had apparently been secured by the Concordat..........

"In the mid-1930s these various measures were given a more vicious accent by Government sponsored campaigns involving those old standbys of money and sex. ......Well publicised investigations into these currency violations in turn triggered denunciation of the Catholic clergy for mostly homosexual but also paedophile offences. Between May 1936 and July 1937 there were 270 prosecutions of such men, of whom 170 monks and 64 priests were convicted. A major trial was held in Koblenz in May 1936 which resulted in the conviction of past and present members of a lay nursing order, most of the evidence coming from a former member of the order who had joined the SD [SS Security Service]. The intervening Olympic Games led Hitler to drop further trials, which were resumed with a vengeance after Pius XI's encyclical 'Mit Brennender Sorge' was released in early 1937. 

Hitler immediately the Ministry of Justice to give priority to these 'morality trials'. The Ministry of Propaganda urged the press to treat these trials as evidence of pervasive perversity within the Catholic Church. The press, and caricaturists in particular, had a field day with illicit intimacies in the confessionals or tubby monks whose capacious cassocks concealed several pairs of dainty feet. That summer Nazi publications also attacked secretary of state Pacelli, accusing him of using a visit to Liseux in France to organise the 'moral encirclement' of Germany with the aid of 'friends' in the French Communist Party who were shown holding his cloak. [2] ......

"Tendentious reporting [3] of a small number of sex crimes (involving mainly lay staff) in Catholic boarding schools or religious houses enabled members of the Government to claim that the Catholic Church was awash with sex fiends. There were few holds barred in gathering the evidence, which involved the SD and Gestapo interviewing disgruntled religious drop-outs, ex-pupils and orphans, with offers of sweets alternating with a head bashed into a wall or the threat of concentration camp to secure the appropriate testimony. On this basis minister for the Churches Kerrl could claim that 7,000 clergy had been convicted of sex crimes between 1933 and 1937, whereas the true figure seems to have been 170, of whom many had left the religious life prior to their convictions. The deliberate inflation of statistics was a favoured Nazi device for ramping up hysteria [3], as they would do in 1939 when they turned 5,000 ethnic German victims of the Poles whose country the Nazis had invaded into '50,000'. There was no reporting of similar sexual transgressions involving members of Nazi formations.
"

The above extract is from Chapter 3, sub-section 111 of Burleigh's book, the part entitled 'The Catholic Church and German National Socialism'.

Notes:
[1] This is Eugenio Pacelli, who became Pope Pius XII in 1939. According to John Cornwell (and other 'liberal' commentators) he was 'Hitler's Pope'. (Cornwell's book of that name was published in 2000).

[2] So the Nazis accused the future Pope Pius XII of being a friend of Communists whereas 'liberals' accuse him of being soft on Nazis! I recall that George Orwell once said that Nazis and Communists have more in common with each other than either has with a democrat!

[3] Regarding "tendentious reporting" and "ramping up hysteria" the following quotation from Hermann Kelly's book 'Kathy's Real Story' is relevant. The author is talking about the use of the term 'paedophile priest' by the media in Ireland.

"According to Michael J. Breen (Studies Autumn 2000) this phrase was used 332 times in The Irish Times between August 1993 and August 2000. The 'paedophile priest' term comes up 265 times in The Irish Times archive between January 1996 - August 2007, yet the terms 'paedophile farmer', 'paedophile lawyer', 'paedophile teacher' or 'paedophile journalist' never occurs." (page 148/149).

As per George Orwell, The Irish Times has more in common with Nazi propagandists than it has with the Catholic Church ......

  
6th January 2012, 07:52 PM

Goebbels and the Pedophile Priests Operation

I'm heading out now but my comment above on the old thread was a response to the following comment by "Brenny"

QUOTE:
I thought this might be of interest to anyone curious about the history of child abuse in Catholic Europe. Many have wondered if and when did anyone ever try to tackle the problem in the past. Was any government ever virtuous enough to face down the power of the Catholic Church over this issue?

Well it seems there was, the good old National Socialists of 1930s Germany.
 [My emphasis]The author of the following article attacks the old master of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, but the whole article itself is tinged with propaganda and spin and seeks to subtly equate opponents of the church with nazism. At the same time many members of the German clergy were strong opponents of the nazis and that is pointed out here and should be acknowledged, but many will feel that Pope Pius was not as opposed to Nazism as he could and should have been.
Goebbels and the pedophile priests operation, by Massimo Introvigne

In 1937 the Nazi propaganda minister organized a campaign to discredit the Catholic Church in response to the encyclical ‘Mit brennender Sorge.’ The head of the German military’s counter-espionage unit, Wilhelm Canaris, passed the documents to Pius XII.

“There are cases of sexual abuse that come to light every day against a large number of members of the Catholic clergy. Unfortunately it’s not a matter of individual cases, but a collective moral crisis that perhaps the cultural history of humanity has never before known with such a frightening and disconcerting dimension. Numerous priests and religious have confessed. There’s no doubt that the thousands of cases which have come to the attention of the justice system represent only a small fraction of the true total, given that many molesters have been covered and hidden by the hierarchy.”

An editorial from a great secular newspaper in 2010? No: It’s a speech of May 28, 1937, by Joseph Goebbels (1897-1945), Minister of Propaganda for the Third Reich. This speech, which had a large international echo, was the apex of a campaign launched by the Nazi regime to discredit the Catholic Church by involving it in a scandal of pedophile priests.

Two hundred and seventy-six religious and forty-nine diocesan priests were arrested in 1937. The arrests took place in all the German dioceses, in order to keep the scandals on the front pages of the newspapers.

ENDOFQUOTE

6th January 2012, 08:39 PMbetween the bridges 
between the bridges is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
Was reading Richard Evans The Third Reich in Power which has interesting material on how the Nazis treated the Catholic Church.
First of all it is clear that the Catholics (and the Catholic Centre Party) were regarded after the Communists and Socialists as the main opposition and the main targets of bringing the whole of German society under totalitarian control. One third of Catholic priests were imprisoned by the regime. 

What is also interesting is that the main propaganda instrument used against the Catholic Church was allegations of child abuse. As we know such things did take place in other jurisdictions and no doubt in Germany as well, but the allegations were grossly exaggerated in order to justify the repression.

Are there parallels in this country? Are the instances of child sexual abuse by Catholic clerics which appear to be no higher than among any other cohort of the population being used as the basis for removing its influence from education and other spheres of life? 

For comparative purposes, the Nazis themselves already had highly abusive institutions within their own apparatus. There were several rapes and murders of members of the Hitler Youth on camps during their campaign against the CC.

It was also shown that half of girls fostered in Sweden in the 1950s and 60s were abused and there are over half a million cases of children believed to be at risk reported in Britain every year. 

So is the concentration on the Catholic Church ideologically driven? And if so for what purpose?
Godwin’s in the first post? Well to continue the theme been a member of the hilter youth didn’t effect a certain Roman Catholics cleric’s career…
o                                              
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6th January 2012, 09:10 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
You are missing the point. It is in the history forum as there is a valid comparison in my opinion to be made between the manner in which the Nazis exagerrated the extent of Catholic clercial abuse and the manner in which a similar exagerration of recent abuse has been used as a stick with which to beat it. Both ideologically motivated.

That is not to excuse the abuse of children by Catholic clerics which like all such abuse by whoever is inexcusable. 

Liberator_Rev, I take it that is your own anti-Papist website you refer to! Himmler as a Catholic??? Eh. I don't think so. Perhaps you ought to read the biography someone references above. I also note that your section on the Inquisition relieson 19th century anti catholic historians rather than primary research based studies which undermine the myths about that episode in history.

Yes they treated the Catholic church so badly that the same Catholic church saw fit to assist wanted SS members to escape via a well established and and well used escape route.
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6th January 2012, 09:20 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
Was reading Richard Evans The Third Reich in Power which has interesting material on how the Nazis treated the Catholic Church.
First of all it is clear that the Catholics (and the Catholic Centre Party) were regarded after the Communists and Socialists as the main opposition and the main targets of bringing the whole of German society under totalitarian control. One third of Catholic priests were imprisoned by the regime. 

What is also interesting is that the main propaganda instrument used against the Catholic Church was allegations of child abuse. As we know such things did take place in other jurisdictions and no doubt in Germany as well, but the allegations were grossly exaggerated in order to justify the repression.

Are there parallels in this country? Are the instances of child sexual abuse by Catholic clerics which appear to be no higher than among any other cohort of the population being used as the basis for removing its influence from education and other spheres of life? 

For comparative purposes, the Nazis themselves already had highly abusive institutions within their own apparatus. There were several rapes and murders of members of the Hitler Youth on camps during their campaign against the CC.

It was also shown that half of girls fostered in Sweden in the 1950s and 60s were abused and there are over half a million cases of children believed to be at risk reported in Britain every year. 

So is the concentration on the Catholic Church ideologically driven? And if so for what purpose?

Are there parallels in this country?

Simply, no. 

There are no parallels in this country. One aspect is talking about 1930's Germany and the other is 21st century Ireland. You seem to be trying to push some sort of idea that the Catholic Church were in opposition to Hitlers Nazi regime, which is simply laughable. 

Firstly, the Vatican kept very very quiet during the Holocaust, why is that? 

Hitler himself was a Roman Catholic and often throughout Mein Kampf spoke about "doing god's work". He was baptised and never renounced his baptism. All soldiers in the SS would place three fingers in their belt to signify the Holy Trinity.
 
Also, and most significantly the Cardinal Arch-Bishop of Munich, Adolf Bertram, held a special mass in 1939, when Hitler escaped assassination, to celebrate "the fortunate release of the Fuhrer".


What is also interesting is that the main propaganda instrument used against the Catholic Church was allegations of child abuse. As we know such things did take place in other jurisdictions and no doubt in Germany as well, but the allegations were grossly exaggerated in order to justify the repression

It is this kind of sickening comment that do the Catholic Church no favors at all. In modern day Ireland for example all the religous hacks in the media do the Church more damage than good when they spout this nonsensical drivel. David Quinn, John Waters, Breda O'Brien and clearly yourself, just dont seem to get it.

You come with comments that the scale of abuse in the Church was no more widespread in than other aspect of Society, as if that some how minimizes the despair inflicted on its victims.

The reason why abuse in the Church is so controversial is because of its standing in Irish Society for so long and the trust that people placed in that organisation to protect their children and contribute to their upbringing.

The real controversy is not in the abuse itself but more of the covering up of that abuse all the way up to the Pope himself. Their total disregard for innocent children, the interest on the protection of their own majesty and outright refusal to this day to issue a straight apology from the top down.

Bishop Driarmuid Martin, gets it. He gets that what the Church is guilty of is simply inexcusable and has also completely rejected the claim made by yourself that there is anti-catholic, so-called propaganda in the media. You should take a leaf out of his book and accept the abuse in the Church for what it is, abhorrent. But if course you want to still play the victim and blame everybody else. Blame society, blame the media, blame satan, hell blame the victims but just dont blame yourself.
So is the concentration on the Catholic Church ideologically driven? And if so for what purpose?
That is a pathetic question to put to any rational thinking person. For reasons, see above.
Last edited by LongLiberal; 6th January 2012 at 09:28 PM.


6th January 2012, 09:39 PMLongLiberal 
Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
It wasn't David Quinn who claimed that. It came from a survey that the Iona Institute had carried out by Amarach Research. It found that the average estimate of the number of priests involved in child abuse was 28%, while the real figure, going from an American study, is around 4%. 

Is the figure of 4% greater or lesser than the rate for the general population?
David Quinn and the Iona Institute's assertion are more or less the same thing. 

I remember listening to Quinn and Patsy Mc Garry on the Pat Kenny show and, Quinn conceded that the survey was very deliberate in its timing i.e straight after the Cloyne Report and also that the survey itself asked "completely open ended questions".

I hope Quinn needs plenty of toilet paper, because thats about all that survey is good for his wiping ass.
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6th January 2012, 11:50 PM
5

Catholic politiicians who had disagreements with the hierarchy - imagine that!

Seanie Lemass says:
"Liberator_Rev, I take it that is your own anti-Papist website you refer to! Himmler as a Catholic??? Eh. I don't think so. Perhaps you ought to read the biography someone references above."

I know that for unquestioning Catholics like yourself, Seanie, calling my site "anti-Papist" is enough to dismiss all the historical evidence I have assembled there to support my conclusions. The same goes for your "I don't think so" response. That IN YOUR MIND proves that anything said that you don't agree with is ipso facto WRONG. 

The way I found out that most of the leaders of the Nazi regime were Roman Catholics was by researching their individual histories on the web. I understand why their church can run far enough from these Roman Catholics NOW. But the time their church should have told the world that the Church repudiated everything these "Catholics" stood for was WHEN THEY WERE IN POWER, not AFTER THEY WERE LONG GONE!

As for Himmler, my site doesn't claim that he and the many other Nazi leaders were MODEL Catholics. All I claim is that they lived and died for the most part as Catholic politiicians who had disagreements with the hierarchy - imagine that! - The Catholic Church has had a tool for telling its members and the world about unfit members who should be shunned. It had reasons for not using excommunication on the Nazis, not EXCUSES, but shameful "reasons".

This blog won't allow me to post links, but here's an example of what you WON'T FIND on Catholic web sites about H H : 
"The Himmler family had always been devout and faithful Catholics, especially the young Heinrich whose participation in the mass was very much it seems a spiritual experience for him.

When he was nineteen years old he would confide in his diary: "Come what may. I shall always love God, shall pray to him and shall remain faithful to the Catholic Church and shall defend it even if I should be expelled from it." (He was never excommunicated.)

Later as a practicing national socialist he would order the murder of priests, nuns, monks and others and later advocate the public execution of the pope. He also instructed a senior SS officer to furnish plans to kidnap the pope (neither happened of course.)

Himmler certainly may have eventually displaced his religious devotion from Catholicism to National Socialism but he would certainly be influenced by the ritualism of that church."
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7th January 2012, 08:01 PM#68

Hallo everybody!

I've read all the posts in this thread and would like to express my opinion.
In 2009 the "Pave the Way Foundation" found out that German Catholic bishops had excommunicated the nazist party since 1930.

The first was the bishop Magonza following those of Munich, Colon and others.

No catholic was allowed to subscribe nazist party and no nazist was allowed to take part to Catholic funerals or get the communion.

Then Goering was sent to Rome to protest but the secretary of the Vatican, the future Pope Pacelli refused to meet him, so Goering was received by Pizzardo, but his requests were rejected.
When in 1932 Hitler got the power, German bishops protested, but in vain.
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7th January 2012, 08:21 PM
parentheses is online now
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Quote Originally Posted by Liberator_Rev View Post
As for Himmler, my site doesn't claim that he and the many other Nazi leaders were MODEL Catholics. All I claim is that they lived and died for the most part as Catholic politiicians who had disagreements with the hierarchy - imagine that! - The Catholic Church has had a tool for telling its members and the world about unfit members who should be shunned. It had reasons for not using excommunication on the Nazis, not EXCUSES, but shameful "reasons".
This blog won't allow me to post links, but here's an example of what you WON'T FIND on Catholic web sites about H H : 
"The Himmler family had always been devout and faithful Catholics, especially the young Heinrich whose participation in the mass was very much it seems a spiritual experience for him.

When he was nineteen years old he would confide in his diary: "Come what may. I shall always love God, shall pray to him and shall remain faithful to the Catholic Church and shall defend it even if I should be expelled from it." (He was never excommunicated.)

Later as a practicing national socialist he would order the murder of priests, nuns, monks and others and later advocate the public execution of the pope. He also instructed a senior SS officer to furnish plans to kidnap the pope (neither happened of course.)

Himmler certainly may have eventually displaced his religious devotion from Catholicism to National Socialism but he would certainly be influenced by the ritualism of that church."

You seem to be contradicting yourself wholesale.

You say Himmler advocated the public exection of the Pope and ordered the deaths of priests monks and nuns and yet you try to claim he was some kind of faithful Catholic.

Of course he may have been influenced by Catholicism as a young man but it seems clear he was an apostate in later life
7th January 2012, 10:26 PM#

Liberator_Rev is offline
Parentheses, you are a riot!
You accuse ME of 
Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
You seem to be contradicting yourself wholesale. (i.e.) 
You say Himmler advocated the public exection of the Pope and ordered the deaths of priests monks and nuns (in his later life) and yet you try to claim he was some kind of faithful Catholic (in his early life).

First of all, I didn't say that the link was to MY OWN SITE, and those were not my own words. But even if they were, why do you charge the author of "contradicting yourself wholesale" and you then proceed to make the very same point made by that author? i.e. 
Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
Of course he may have been influenced by Catholicism as a young man but it seems clear he was an apostate in later life.

Why is it a contradiction if OTHERS make that point, but not if YOU do it?
Last edited by Liberator_Rev; 7th January 2012 at 10:56 PM.


7th January 2012, 10:38 PM#71
Cruimh Cruimh is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Chiara View Post
Hallo everybody!

I've read all the posts in this thread and would like to express my opinion.

In 2009 the "Pave the Way Foundation" found out that German Catholic bishops had excommunicated the nazist party since 1930.
The first was the bishop Magonza following those of Munich, Colon and others.

No catholic was allowed to subscribe nazist party and no nazist was allowed to take part to Catholic funerals or get the communion.
Then Goering was sent to Rome to protest but the secretary of the Vatican, the future Pope Pacelli refused to meet him, so Goering was received by Pizzardo, but his requests were rejected.

When in 1932 Hitler got the power, German bishops protested, but in vain.
Most odd then that the Vatican signed the Reichskonkordat in 1933

7th January 2012, 10:57 PM#72
Chiara Chiara is offline
Yes, maybe odd, it depends on the point of views. After the concordat, Pope Pacelli said to a British embassador that he had to chose between an agreement or the complete elimination of the German Catholic Church. The following are his own words: "I had to chose between being just hanged (concordat) or being hanged, disembowelled, quartered (no concordat).


7th January 2012, 11:03 PM#73
Cruimh Cruimh is offline

Quote Originally Posted by Chiara View Post
Yes, maybe odd, it depends on the point of views. After the concordat, Pope Pacelli said to a British embassador that he had to chose between an agreement or the complete elimination of the German Catholic Church. The following are his own words: "I had to chose between being just hanged (concordat) or being hanged, disembowelled, quartered (no concordat).
On the other hand :

Link
It was a marriage of convenience between Hitler and the Vatican, one which disenfranchised the Catholic laymen. As Hitler cynically put it:
"We should trap the priests by their notorious greed and self indulgence. We shall thus be able to settle everything with them in perfect peace and harmony. I shall give them a few years' reprieve. Why should we quarrel? They will swallow anything in order to keep their material advantages. Matters will never come to a head. They will recognize a firm will, and we need only show them once or twice who is master. They will know which way the wind blows." [Quoted in Guenter Lewy,The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany (2000), pp. 25-26]

7th January 2012, 11:12 PM#74
Liberator_Rev Liberator_Rev is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Chiara View Post
In 2009 the "Pave the Way Foundation" found out that German Catholic bishops had excommunicated the nazist party since 1930.
This "foundation" is nothing but one Jewish businessman and his wife posing as experts in the history of the Roman Cathoilic Church's role in the Jewish Holocaust, and the quote above is a great illustration of how incompetent they are.

Every scholar in this area knows that "the German Catholic bishops had excommunicated the nazist party" but they also know that it wasn't "since 1930". It was from 1930 only to 1933, when the Nazi ceased being a potentialthreat and became an actual threat. 

When the Nazis actually came to power in early 1933, the R.C. church's leaders made peace "with the Devil". They stopped forbiding the faithful from joining the Nazi Party, they gave in to Hitler's demands that they disband their "Centre Party" - one of the last obstacles in Hitler's path to absolute dictatorial power -, and they signed the Condordat of 1933, whose crown jewel for Hitler (in my estimation) was Article 16, which read:

Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula: "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it."
From that point on, how could any R.C. bishop or priest in Nazi Germany resist the Nazi government, when they had vowed to God not to do so? 

P.S. Both Catholic clergy and the Nazi government also invoked "the Word of God" to require obedience to the government, in the form of "St. Paul" who directed "people of faith" as follows in his Epistle to the Romans 13:1-7:

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; for it is God's servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience.

For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, busy with this very thing. Pay to all what is due them--taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. 
"

7th January 2012, 11:15 PM#75
Chiara Chiara is offline
Yes, in my opinion, Hitler wasn't completely wrong. Unfortuantely a lot of priests cared and still care more to keep self advantages. The question is if the greedy ones were (and are) more than the good ones, I hope not.
Regarding the Pope, nowadays, at last, public opinion recognizes that he was a much better person than he was thought to be.

P.S. Hope I made myself understood in the last sentence. Got some problems wuth my English. 

7th January 2012, 11:23 PM#76
Chiara Chiara is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Liberator_Rev View Post
This "foudnation" is nothing but one Jewish businessman and his wife posing as experts in the history of the Roman Cathoilic Church's role in the Jewish Holocaust, and the quote above is a great illustration of how incompetent they are. 
Every scholar in this area knows that "the German Catholic bishops had excommunicated the nazist party" but they also know that it wasn't "since 1930". It was from 1930 only to 1933 when the Nazi ceased being a potential threat and became an actual threat. When the Nazis actually came to power, the R.C. church's leaders made peace "with the Devil". They stopped forbiding the faithful from joining the Nazi Party, they gave in to Hitler's demands that they disband their "Centre Party" - one of the last obstacles in Hitler's path to absolute dictatorial power -, and they signed the Condordat of 1933, whose crown jewel for Hitler (in my estimation) was Article 16, which read:

From that point on, how could any R.C. bishop or priest in Nazi Germany resist the Nazi government, when they had vowed to God not to do so? 

P.S. Both Catholic clergy and the Nazi government also invoked "the Word of God" to require obedience to the government, in the form of "St. Paul" who directed "people of faith" as follows in Ch. 13 of his Epistle to the Romans 13:1-7:

Yes, you're right. But I meant that this organization found the written documents about excommunication..at least it's my information.

Regarding the other points, I've already expressed my opinion in the above post.
Catholic church was involved with nazism of course, but for the majority of them it was the lesser evil.

8th January 2012, 03:18 PM#77
Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

Quote Originally Posted by LongLiberal View Post
Simply, no. 

There are no parallels in this country. One aspect is talking about 1930's Germany and the other is 21st century Ireland. You seem to be trying to push some sort of idea that the Catholic Church were in opposition to Hitlers Nazi regime, which is simply laughable. 
Firstly, the Vatican kept very very quiet during the Holocaust, why is that? 

Hitler himself was a Roman Catholic and often throughout Mein Kampf spoke about "doing god's work". He was baptised and never renounced his baptism. All soldiers in the SS would place three fingers in their belt to signify the Holy Trinity. 

Also, and most significantly the Cardinal Arch-Bishop of Munich, Adolf Bertram, held a special mass in 1939, when Hitler escaped assassination, to celebrate "the fortunate release of the Fuhrer". ......

Do you even read previous posts. I quote from no 61

"Tendentious reporting [3] of a small number of sex crimes (involving mainly lay staff) in Catholic boarding schools or religious houses enabled members of the Government to claim that the Catholic Church was awash with sex fiends. There were few holds barred in gathering the evidence, which involved the SD and Gestapo interviewing disgruntled religious drop-outs, ex-pupils and orphans, with offers of sweets alternating with a head bashed into a wall or the threat of concentration camp to secure the appropriate testimony. On this basis minister for the Churches Kerrl could claim that 7,000 clergy had been convicted of sex crimes between 1933 and 1937, whereas the true figure seems to have been 170, of whom many had left the religious life prior to their convictions. The deliberate inflation of statistics was a favoured Nazi device for ramping up hysteria [3], as they would do in 1939 when they turned 5,000 ethnic German victims of the Poles whose country the Nazis had invaded into '50,000'. There was no reporting of similar sexual transgressions involving members of Nazi formations."

The above extract is from Chapter 3, sub-section 111 of Burleigh's book, the part entitled 'The Catholic Church and German National Socialism'.

Notes:
.......

[2] So the Nazis accused the future Pope Pius XII of being a friend of Communists whereas 'liberals' accuse him of being soft on Nazis! I recall that George Orwell once said that Nazis and Communists have more in common with each other than either has with a democrat!

[3] Regarding "tendentious reporting" and "ramping up hysteria" the following quotation from Hermann Kelly's book 'Kathy's Real Story' is relevant. The author is talking about the use of the term 'paedophile priest' by the media in Ireland.

"According to Michael J. Breen (Studies Autumn 2000) this phrase was used 332 times in The Irish Times between August 1993 and August 2000. The 'paedophile priest' term comes up 265 times in The Irish Times archive between January 1996 - August 2007, yet the terms 'paedophile farmer', 'paedophile lawyer', 'paedophile teacher' or 'paedophile journalist' never occurs." (page 148/149).

As per George Orwell, The Irish Times has more in common with Nazi propagandists than it has with the Catholic Church ......

You do understand that in Nazi Germany and in modern Ireland, people who hated the Catholic Church invented and/or grossly exaggerated allegations of child abuse in order to discredit the Church? If you care to investigate a bit further you will also find that these false allegations included allegations of child murder. For example try Googling the phrases "Murder of the Undead" or "Victimless Murders" for allegations that the Christian Brothers murdered boys in their care. (The Nazi pornographer Julius Streicher made comparable claims about the Jews murdering Christian children.)

8th January 2012, 03:47 PM#78
Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

Vatican Concordats

While I'm at it, the following quotation from Burleigh's book concerns the attempts of two future popes - Pius XI (Achille Ratti) and Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli) to negotiate a Concordat with the Soviet Union in the 1920s. It throws an interesting light on the frequent denunciations of the Vatican concordat with Nazi Germany in 1933.

Vatican concordats with governments do not imply approval of the governments. Of course there is a danger that a vicious dictatorship will use the agreement in order to boost its international standing - and that is precisely what the Soviet government was trying to do in the early 1920s. Indeed negotiations with the Vatican broke down because several governments - including both Britain and fascist Italy(!) - recognised the Soviet Union in 1924 and the Soviets no longer needed an agreement with the Vatican. However the future Pope Pius XII continued to negotiate even "when the execution in Leningrad of a Polish Catholic priest complicated matters" !!

.... Both nuncios, Ratti in Warsaw and the younger Pacelli in Munich (until 1925, when he moved to Berlin as nuncio to the German Reich), were closely involved in Rome's diplomatic initiatives with the Soviets. The Vatican initially welcomed the fall of the Romanovs, believing that this would herald a new era of freedom and opportunity for the Roman Catholic Church in the debris of the Tsarist Empire. Benedict XV employed Ratti to contact Lenin on behalf of persecuted Catholic and Orthodox clergy.

In late 1921, the Vatican offered the Soviet Union humanitarian assistance hurriedly incorporating a broader secret agreement which, capitalising on the disarray of the Orthodox Church would - they imagined - have enhanced Roman Catholic activities in Russia. The aid was provided but the wider agreement remained a dead letter. Assisted by the German Government which saw relations with Russia as a means of terminating Germany's pariah status, the archbishop of Genoa held talks with the Soviet foreign affairs commisar Chicherin on board an Italian cruiser with a view to negotiating a concordat. A further series of meetings took place at Rapallo, based on Vatican calls for freedom of conscience and Soviet demands for diplomatic recognition. Effortlessly overcoming the extreme distaste for German (Jewish) Bolsheviks that he is alleged to have expressed in 1919, Pacelli met Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet Union's (Jewish) foreign minister, at the Berlin villa of the brother of the German ambassador to Moscow. 

When Mussolini recognised the Soviet Union on 8 February 1924, and was quickly followed by, among others, Britain, Norway, Austria, Greece and Sweden, the Soviets ceased to regard negotiations with the Vatican as important except for the question of aid. Pacelli continued to negotiate with the Soviets in Berlin until mid-August 1925 when the execution in Leningrad of a Polish Catholic priest complicated matters. However he met Chicherin twice in 1925 and 1927, discovering that his Soviet interlocutors were prepared to concede less and less, and such talks abruptly stalled under Stalin, to whom the Vatican was an irrelevance.


From Sacred Causes by Michael Burleigh - Chapter 3 "The Churches in the Age of Dictators", section II - "The Vatican, Communism and Fascism" page 164

8th January 2012, 04:03 PM#79
Seanie Lemass Seanie Lemass is offline

Quote Originally Posted by between the bridges View Post
Godwin’s in the first post? Well to continue the theme been a member of the hilter youth didn’t effect a certain Roman Catholics cleric’s career…

There were 18.9 million people of the eligable age to join the HJ when the Pope did. 18.7 million of them did. Now, think about that. You reckon they were all enthusiasts? Do you understand anything about totalitarianism?

8th January 2012, 04:06 PM#80

Seanie Lemass Seanie Lemass is offline

Quote Originally Posted by Chiara View Post
Yes, in my opinion, Hitler wasn't completely wrong. Unfortuantely a lot of priests cared and still care more to keep self advantages. The question is if the greedy ones were (and are) more than the good ones, I hope not.
Regarding the Pope, nowadays, at last, public opinion recognizes that he was a much better person than he was thought to be.

P.S. Hope I made myself understood in the last sentence. Got some problems wuth my English. 




And they built the autobanhen!




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8th January 2012, 04:31 PM
between the bridges between the bridges is offline

Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
There were 18.9 million people of the eligable age to join the HJ when the Pope did. 18.7 million of them did. Now, think about that. You reckon they were all enthusiasts? Do you understand anything about totalitarianism?

so i shouldn't judge a whole orginasition on the basis of some/one bad apple/s? 

as for 'totalitarianism' i am unionist don't you know we wrote the book..

8th January 2012, 05:28 PM
LongLiberal LongLiberal is offline






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8th January 2012, 06:24 PM
Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline
Quote Originally Posted by LongLiberal View Post
Simply, no. 
There are no parallels in this country. One aspect is talking about 1930's Germany and the other is 21st century Ireland. You seem to be trying to push some sort of idea that the Catholic Church were in opposition to Hitlers Nazi regime, which is simply laughable. 
Firstly, the Vatican kept very very quiet during the Holocaust, why is that? 

Hitler himself was a Roman Catholic and often throughout Mein Kampf spoke about "doing god's work". He was baptised and never renounced his baptism. All soldiers in the SS would place three fingers in their belt to signify the Holy Trinity. 
Also, and most significantly the Cardinal Arch-Bishop of Munich, Adolf Bertram, held a special mass in 1939, when Hitler escaped assassination, to celebrate "the fortunate release of the Fuhrer". ........

.
I'm not sure why it is necessary to keep on refuting this nonsense. It has been done before - by myself and others - on the Politics.ie website and the book "Hitler's Table Talk" was first published in 1953. However here it is again.

Extracts from "Hitler's Secret Conversations" (aka "Hitler's Table Talk") regarding Christianity

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, "Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944", which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:
Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

Hitler was in fact, a Social Darwinist who believed in an impersonal Providence which gives victory to the strong by using a process of natural selection to ensure the survival of the fittest. (He objected to Christianity because he saw it as "a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature ..... the systematic cultivation of the human failure".)

8th January 2012, 06:49 PM
Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

Child Killing Allegations by Anti-Clerics: Nazis and "Lliberals"

HOWEVER the subject of this thread is "Nazis, the Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

It is a fact that the Nazis launched a campaign against the Catholic Church that involved invented or grossly exaggerated allegations of child sexual abuse. it is also a fact that the Nazis did the same in relation to the Jews - and in their case included allegations that Christian children were murdered by Jews.

In his book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", William Shirer has this to say about Hitler's favourite anti-Semite Julius Streicher:
"A famous fornicator he made his fame and fortune as a blindly fanatical anti-Semite. His notorious weekly Der Stuermer thrived on lurid tales of Jewish sexual crimes and Jewish "ritual murders"; its obscenity was nauseating even to many Nazis".

You will note that not all Nazis were enthusiastic about Herr Streicher and his allegations.

The following is an extract from my own website:

This website is about false allegations of child abuse - mainly those directed at the Catholic Church in Ireland. I do not dispute that there are real cases of abuse of children by clerics but my contention is that these have been used as an excuse to launch a witch-hunt. This witch-hunt has now spread to every part of our society so that every teacher, doctor, nurse, social worker etc has to take specific precautions to guard against becoming the target of a false accusation. ........

"Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child-Killing Allegations"
Christian Brothers, Child Killing Allegations, Letter to Sunday Tribune
is a summary of several allegations that the Christian Brothers were responsible for killing children in their care. (We are not talking about negligence here.) The allegations were made in a 4 to 5 year period beginning in 1999 (i.e. just after the broadcast of Mary Raftery's "States of Fear" series by the national broadcast company RTE in April/May of that year). Prior to the broadcast of "States of Fear", there was just one allegation of that type and it was directed at the Sisters of Mercy. I have discussed this in the essay "Sister Xavieria and "Child Killing" in Goldenbridge". 
Sister Xavieria, Sisters of Mercy, 'Child Killing' in Goldenbridge
(This allegation followed RTE's broadcast of Louis Lentin's documentary "Dear Daughter" in February 1996 which made serious allegations against the Sisters of Mercy in Goldenbridge residential school.)


The above is more relevant to the subject of this thread than general claims that "Hitler was a Catholic" etc Also the people who made these false claims seem to have got away with it, whereas even some Nazis were nauseated by Julius Streicher.

8th January 2012, 07:29 PM
Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

Child Killing Allegations by Anti-Clerics: Nazis and "Lliberals"

Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
.........

The following is an extract from my own website:

This website is about false allegations of child abuse - mainly those directed at the Catholic Church in Ireland. I do not dispute that there are real cases of abuse of children by clerics but my contention is that these have been used as an excuse to launch a witch-hunt. This witch-hunt has now spread to every part of our society so that every teacher, doctor, nurse, social worker etc has to take specific precautions to guard against becoming the target of a false accusation. ........

"Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child-Killing Allegations"
Christian Brothers, Child Killing Allegations, Letter to Sunday Tribune
is a summary of several allegations that the Christian Brothers were responsible for killing children in their care. (We are not talking about negligence here.) The allegations were made in a 4 to 5 year period beginning in 1999 (i.e. just after the broadcast of Mary Raftery's "States of Fear" series by the national broadcast company RTE in April/May of that year). Prior to the broadcast of "States of Fear", there was just one allegation of that type and it was directed at the Sisters of Mercy. I have discussed this in the essay "Sister Xavieria and "Child Killing" in Goldenbridge". 
Sister Xavieria, Sisters of Mercy, 'Child Killing' in Goldenbridge
(This allegation followed RTE's broadcast of Louis Lentin's documentary "Dear Daughter" in February 1996 which made serious allegations against the Sisters of Mercy in Goldenbridge residential school.)
 ........
I'm heading off now BUT
Louis Lentin is Jewish. A better example of "biting off your nose to spite your face" would be almost impossible to find!
Louis Lentin, Christine Buckley, Gerry Kelly, False Allegations against Sisters of Mercy and Christian Brothers


8th January 2012, 08:16 PM
TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
I'm heading off now
Don't rush back.

8th January 2012, 08:33 PM
LongLiberal LongLiberal is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
I'm not sure why it is necessary to keep on refuting this nonsense. It has been done before - by myself and others - on the Politics.ie website and the book "Hitler's Table Talk" was first published in 1953. However here it is again.

Extracts from "Hitler's Secret Conversations" (aka "Hitler's Table Talk") regarding Christianity

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, "Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944", which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:
Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

Hitler was in fact, a Social Darwinist who believed in an impersonal Providence which gives victory to the strong by using a process of natural selection to ensure the survival of the fittest. (He objected to Christianity because he saw it as "a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature ..... the systematic cultivation of the human failure".)

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1



Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children. 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1


Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time. 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5


What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator. 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8



Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise. 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1



In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following: (a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered; (b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap. The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged. 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11




In a public address in Munich - 

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."



Stuttgart address February 15th 1933 - 

"Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany’s fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity"


8th January 2012, 08:41 PM
LongLiberal LongLiberal is offline
Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
HOWEVER the subject of this thread is "Nazis, the Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

It is a fact that the Nazis launched a campaign against the Catholic Church that involved invented or grossly exaggerated allegations of child sexual abuse. it is also a fact that the Nazis did the same in relation to the Jews - and in their case included allegations that Christian children were murdered by Jews.

In his book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", William Shirer has this to say about Hitler's favourite anti-Semite Julius Streicher:
"A famous fornicator he made his fame and fortune as a blindly fanatical anti-Semite. His notorious weekly Der Stuermer thrived on lurid tales of Jewish sexual crimes and Jewish "ritual murders"; its obscenity was nauseating even to many Nazis".

You will note that not all Nazis were enthusiastic about Herr Streicher and his allegations.

The following is an extract from my own website:

This website is about false allegations of child abuse - mainly those directed at the Catholic Church in Ireland. I do not dispute that there are real cases of abuse of children by clerics but my contention is that these have been used as an excuse to launch a witch-hunt. This witch-hunt has now spread to every part of our society so that every teacher, doctor, nurse, social worker etc has to take specific precautions to guard against becoming the target of a false accusation. ........

"Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child-Killing Allegations"
Christian Brothers, Child Killing Allegations, Letter to Sunday Tribune
is a summary of several allegations that the Christian Brothers were responsible for killing children in their care. (We are not talking about negligence here.) The allegations were made in a 4 to 5 year period beginning in 1999 (i.e. just after the broadcast of Mary Raftery's "States of Fear" series by the national broadcast company RTE in April/May of that year). Prior to the broadcast of "States of Fear", there was just one allegation of that type and it was directed at the Sisters of Mercy. I have discussed this in the essay "Sister Xavieria and "Child Killing" in Goldenbridge". 
Sister Xavieria, Sisters of Mercy, 'Child Killing' in Goldenbridge
(This allegation followed RTE's broadcast of Louis Lentin's documentary "Dear Daughter" in February 1996 which made serious allegations against the Sisters of Mercy in Goldenbridge residential school.)


The above is more relevant to the subject of this thread than general claims that "Hitler was a Catholic" etc Also the people who made these false claims seem to have got away with it, whereas even some Nazis were nauseated by Julius Streicher.

HOWEVER the subject of this thread is "Nazis, the Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

waffle waffle waffle
You claimed "it is a fact that ..." - the opinion of an American Journalist is far from from fact. Quite the opposite.


Also I see your website there and its great that lunatics like are go to the lengths you do as it only contributes the impending annihilation of this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation.

8th January 2012, 10:19 PM#89
Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

Anti-Clericalism and Anti-Semitism

Quote Originally Posted by LongLiberal View Post
You claimed "it is a fact that ..." - the opinion of an American Journalist is far from from fact. Quite the opposite.


Also I see your website there and its great that lunatics like are go to the lengths you do as it only contributes the impending annihilation of this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation.

By "the opinion of an American journalist" I presume you mean William Shirer's depiction of Julius Streicher as a vicious pornographer who made false sexual allegations against Jews - up to and including the ritual murder of children? There is nothing at all controversial about Shirer's "opinion". The following is from the Wikipedia article on Julius Streicher and his newspaper Der Sturmer.
Julius Streicher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...... Streicher’s opponents complained to authorities that Der Stürmer violated a statute against religious offense with his constant promulgation of the “blood libel” — the medieval accusation that Jews killed Christian children to use their blood to make matzoh. Streicher argued that his accusations were based on race, not religion, and that his communications were political speech, and therefore protected by the German constitution.[5]

Streicher orchestrated his early campaigns against Jews to make the most extreme possible claims, short of violating a law that might get the paper shut down. ........ He claimed that Jews were white-slavers and were responsible for over 90 percent of the prostitutes in the country. Real unsolved killings in Germany, especially of children or women, were often confidently explained in the pages of Der Stürmer as cases of “Jewish ritual murder.”

One of Streicher’s constant themes was the sexual violation of ethnically German women by Jews, a subject which served as an excuse to publish semi-pornographic tracts and images detailing degrading sexual acts. These “essays” proved an especially appealing feature of the paper for young men. With the help of his notorious cartoonist, Phillip "Fips" Rupprecht, Streicher published image after image of gruesome Jewish stereotypes and sexually-charged encounters. His portrayal of Jews as subhuman and evil is widely considered to have played a critical role in the dehumanization and marginalization of the Jewish minority in the eyes of common Germans .....

Streicher also combed the pages of the Talmud and the Old Testament in search of passages which could paint their ancient Jewish authors as harsh or cruel, a practice which continues to this day among anti-Semites. In 1929, this close study of Jewish scripture helped convict Streicher in a case known as “The Great Nuremberg Ritual Murder Trial.” His familiarity with Jewish text was proof to the court that his attacks were religious in nature; Streicher was found guilty and imprisoned for two months.
 .........

The allegations of child murder against the Christian Brothers and the Sisters of Mercy have now been discredited, and even those who made them, no longer try to repeat them. But perhaps LongLiberal believes them still?? It might explain his description of the Catholic Church as "this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation". Apart from the word "Nazi", this string of obscenities could be taken from the pages of Der Sturmer, as Streicher's depiction of the Jews!

8th January 2012, 10:39 PM

Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

LongLiberal

Regarding your quotations from "Mein Kamph" and Hitler's public speeches, do you understand that the book "Hitler's Table Talk" consists of officially recorded notes of his private conversations with his confidantes at the dinner table during the years 1941 - 44. (Martin Bormann was one of the note-takers.) These represent proof of Hitler's REAL views. Regarding his PUBLIC statements - he made an awful lot about his desire for peace; do you believe those?

Tuesday, June 28, 2016

Cliff Richard and Child Abuse Hysteria





Spiked-OnLine have a interesting article by Luke Gittos their Law Editor entitled
and subtitle "The Paedophile  Panic has rehabilitated some age-old prejudices"

I generally agree with Spiked and Luke Gittos on this topic but I suspect that "homophobia" has little to do with Cliff Richard's ordeal.

I contributed to the discussion myself as follows: 

  
Has everyone here forgotten that the lunatic child-murder allegations began in Ireland NOT the UK, lasted for about a decade and were actually declining here when they started up in the UK (i.e. with the Haut de la Garenne witch-hunt in Jersey in 2008)?
I attempted a summary of the Irish blood libels in a 2006 "Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child Killing Allegations". I think all of the journalists and leaders of "Victims" groups would have very PC attitudes to homosexuals - definitely no homophobia involved in OUR witch-hunt.
http://www.irishsalem.com/iris...

Since many of the child murder claims related to periods when no child died of any cause, I coined the phrases "Murder of the Undead" and "Victimless Murders". The claims in relation to Jersey and "Operation Midland" were ALSO of the "Victimless Murder" variety. In Jersey the deputy police chief responsible for the fiasco was born in Derry, must have heard of the Irish claims but probably did not realise they had been discredited because our anti-clerical media had covered up THAT story.

I suppose I can't fault Luke Gittos for not realising this. At the time I drew up my summary, I managed to forget about the original blood libel in 1996 which was directed against the Sisters of Mercy rather than the Christian Brothers. However you can read all about it here
http://www.irishsalem.com/iris...
with all of the gory details in a Daily Mirror article on 11 October 1997 (also available on line):
HOT POKER WAS USED ON LITTLE MARION.. NO CASH WILL GET HER BACK; I THINK MY BABY WAS MURDERED AT THE ORPHANAGE, SAYS PAYOUT MUM

The hatred involved here is of the anti-clerical variety and I doubt if there was a single homophobe among the false accusers.

P.S. The main victims of this witch-hunt in the UK seem to be either political or cultural Tories. Blood Libels directed against such persons are probably the UK equivalent of Irish anti-clericalism?

What are you claiming? That there were no sadistic nuns or pervy Brothers? That the whole thing was a pernicious lie?

The use of Blood Libels against the Christian Brothers, Sisters of Mercy and later priests (after I wrote my 2006 article) is a pretty clear indication that the whole thing is a pernicious lie. That doesn't mean that there were NO clerical or religious sex offenders. Similarly the use of Blood Libels against Jews doesn't mean that there are NO Jewish criminals.

Incidentally the main allegation about clerical involvement in the murder of a child (Bernadette Connolly in 1970) was orchestrated in 2009 by the then Fine Gael spokesman for Justice. The Gardai (police) carried out a year long investigation that found no evidence of any Catholic Church involvement and a few months later the same politician was appointed Minister for Justice. Yes the whole thing is an obscene witch-hunt orchestrated from the top - and quite similar to the Deputy leader of the Labour Party in the UK supporting obscene lies about the Tories. (The latter witch-hunt involved child-murder as well.)

The Irish child-killing witch-hunts preceded their UK equivalents, and may well have caused them. What other European country has seen left wing/anti-clerical politicians using Blood Libels against the the Catholic Church or Conservatives??

I'd say, pretty much every country with a strong Catholic presence has seen its anti-clerical left wing attacking the Church for pedophilia.
Which was often true, and proved. 

Even though, this left wing itself harbours its own pedophiles - in my country, you'll find them mainly among the Greens and the mainstream liberal left wing.They seem to think pedophilia is cool or something.


"Which was often true and proved"
I concentrated on the child-murder allegations because these are things that can be properly investigated even decades later. The leaders of FOUR "Victims" groups were involved in such claims as were several Irish journalists. Since the same persons were up to their necks in non-lethal child abuse claims as well, I think it's a fair assumption that all of their allegations are false.

And what about the ordinary members of these "Victims" groups? Did they protest when they saw their leaders making ludicrous claims that could easily be proved false? Did they replace these leaders or resign in protest? Well no - presumably because own allegations were also false (though less easy to prove so).

For years Ireland was the only country with "Murder of the Undead" type allegations i.e. where no child died of ANY cause during the relevant period. Then Britain followed with the "Haut de la Garenne" investigations in 2008 and Operation Midland recently. The scapegoats in the UK are the Tories and the underlying reason is probably the final failure of the "liberal agenda" and the desire of hate-filled liberals to find someone else to blame!


I don't know about child-murder allegations, even though similar accusations have been leveled in my country, but against liberal left-wing politicians. 

All I said was pedophilia is well documented within the Catholic Church, and that would be everywhere, not just Ireland. I add that Protestants have also been denounced as having the same rate of child abusers among their ministers - even though, as this data is less politically useful, its has not made the headlines. 

The accusations against the Catholic church in Ireland may well have been orchestrated by some Church-hating Soros-like group, but one thing is certain: if so many people were ready to believe the Church was guilty, it is because of the inescapable fact it has been in the past. 

If I was an anti-Catholic activist with a political agenda, of course I'd use that line myself. It's like shooting an elephant in a barrel.

Kilbarry1  Twisk • 
We will have to agree to disagree. HOWEVER "If so many people were ready to believe the Church was guilty, it is because ..... it has been in the past".

In January 2006 the Sunday Tribune declared that the number of homicides in 2005 had been the highest in the history of the State - at least since the Civil War of the early 1920s. The statistics for all other crimes of violence show the same pattern. I believe the same applies to the suicide rate. I know that the number of children taken into care during the Celtic Tiger years increased greatly - I think from under 4,000 to over 6,000 at a time when Ireland was filthy rich - AND the Church was declining. I find it impossible to believe that the incidence of child sexual abuse is any different i.e. it MUST be greater now than say the 1950s, when the power of the Catholic Church was at its height.

So what is behind the war against the Catholic Church in Ireland and elsewhere? Well in one sense our anti-clerical liberals have won the Culture Wars - with our new-found anything-goes attitude to authority and sexual morality. But in a more profound sense they have lost the war - in relation to crime, suicide and drug abuse for example - and they know it.. Having spent decades blaming the Church for all our evils, they have no way of dealing with our REAL current problems. Their response has been to howl obscenities at the Church and at their own forefathers who deferred to it.Saying that there must be SOME reality behind all these allegations is like making a similar point about Satanic Ritual Abuse or the Salem witch-hunts. Or indeed about the 9 separate accusers of Cliff Richard. (The police and the BBC gave vast publicity to the original false allegation and THAT encouraged all the others to come forward. There is no great mystery about it!)

In the UK, the Tories are stand-ins for the Catholic Church in Ireland (partly because the Anglican Church has provided little resistance to the new liberal order).


We do not disagree. I am quite sure that the attacks against the Catholic Church serve an agenda indeed, that of the liberalization of the whole of society. If I may add a personal observation, I generally find atheists (or Anglicans, or liberal Protestants) way easier to manipulate through propaganda than the Catholics, who have strong convictions and are not easily swayed. Hence, if you want a pliant population, it makes sense to try and destroy Catholicism.

Which does not mean the Church is altogether free of guilt... unfortunately.


Kilbarry1  Twisk • 
I agree about the Anglicans, liberal Protestants etc being gullible and easily manipulated but unfortunately the rot has spread pretty far in the Irish Catholic Church also. I have written here about a (now retired) Bishop Willie Walsh whose acceptance of preposterous allegations caused mirth, even among our anti-clerics.
http://www.irishsalem.com/indi...

There is also the Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin who displays similar credulity - though, in my opinion, he is less of a fool and more of a willing accomplice with the anti-clerical establishment. In February 2014 our national broadcaster RTE had to pay damages to named Catholic journalists who were described as "homophobes" by gay activist Miss Panti Bliss. There were furious protests by politicians and a mass rally denouncing the payout but RTE pointed out that they had no option - their presenter had actually encouraged Miss Panti Bliss to make the comment. Naturally the Archbishop of Dublin weighed in on the controversy
"Homophobia 'insults God', says Archbishop of Dublin"
http://www.independent.ie/iris...

Archbishop Diarmuid had nothing at all to say about the slandered Catholic journalists. In his autobiography "Woman in the Making", Miss Panti Bliss (Rory O'Neill) correctly observed that the Archbishop was on his side and I quote
"The Archbishop of Dublin denounced homophobia and practically declared himself to be on 'Team Panti'. [page 265]

It's true that if you want a pliant population it makes sense to destroy Catholicism, but the Irish Church is destroying itself. Incidentally I am well aware that their media representatives regard me as an extremist!


If I may, the Pope is equally confusing and confused, and might be a tool too. There are rumours that say Pope Benedict was pushed out to be replaced by a more "Western values"-friendly and pliant Pope. 

It wouldn't surprise me.
http://catholicreformation.yuk...

Friday, January 29, 2016

Convicted Rapist Beaten and Chased Out of Dublin Suburb by Mob


Danny Ward - Beaten by Mob

This story actually dates back to June 2015 but a discussion on Politics.ie website has  recently resumed on the topic of how society should treat people who have been convicted of child sex abuse, have served their sentences and been released back into community. The Politics thread has a typical  title -

Danny Ward - who is on the sex offenders register - was set upon in Ringsend by a number of men. He had been staying in a bed and breakfast in the area and  locals had just found out about it. Ward had been drinking in a local pub when he was spotted by a man who recognised him from previous media coverage. Apparently the man who spotted him called a few of his associates and Ward left the pub, but by this stage the other individuals arrived at the scene and Ward "suffered a few thumps" - in the words of the Evening Herald report.


Officers from the local Garda Station rushed to the scene. No arrests were made and according to the Herald report "sources said that there were no plans to make arrests in relation to the incident." Ward was brought to St Vincent's Hospital, where he received treatment for what were described as minor injuries. Sources told the Herald that he will now be "re-housed" in another location. 

Ward has been driven out of a Dublin community before.  In October 2014, locals gathered outside a northside bed and breakfast to protest at his residence there. Reports that he had been spotted acting suspiciously outside of a girls' school in Glasnevin saw a group of angry parents gather at his residence and demand he be moved on. Apparently "details of his sentence or crime can't be published in order to protect the identity of his victim, but as a convicted sex offender Ward is required to sign on at a garda station every seven days."

However sex offenders are not safe in the presence of the police either. There is a easily accessible video  on Facebook showing him being assaulted in Dun Laoghaire  garda station. Not surprisingly there was a follow-up headline in the Irish Daily Mirror on 1st August 2015
Notorious Paedophile Flees Ireland Vigilante Mobs - and is seen on board ferry heading to UK


TO BE CONTINUED

Extracts from discussion on politics.ie

  • Dame_Enda   24 January 2016

I think that people are losing faith in the ability of the justice system to protect them and vigilanteeism like this is a symptom of that. The judiciary must accept some of the blame. This concurrent sentence thing needs to be weeded out, and judges should get compulsory training in victim-sensitivity.

A few days ago an American cop received a 265 year sentence for taping African American women.

  • Kilbarry1   25 January 2016

Sex Crime and Public Hysteria

[ Originally Posted by Uh oooh 

He has done his time, he has paid his debt to society, does he not deserve protection? ]

[ Originally Posted by freewillie 

So has Larry Murphy ]

Here's an extract from The Journal following Larry Murphy's release from jail.
Larry Murphy · The42

LARRY MURPHY Aug 15th 2010, 6:47 PM


THE BROTHER OF convicted rapist Larry Murphy has spoken of his inability to understand how anyone could “carry out a crime like that”.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio One yesterday, Tom Murphy said that he was being ostracised in his home town of Baltinglass, Co Wicklow. Murphy said that people who knew him were turning away from him in the street because he is Larry’s brother.

He emphasised that Larry would not be staying with him following his release from prison three days ago, and said that their family has been destroyed by him. ...... 


I seem to recall another radio interview in which the brother said that his son had to change school 2 or 3 times because he was being harassed about his UNCLE Larry Murphy. 

If that kind of thing had occurred half a century ago during "The Age of De Valera" (and of John Charles McQuaid), our Irish "liberals" would be screaming about it still and claiming that the repressive sexual morality imposed by the Catholic Church had fueled public hysteria . 

[Incidentally Larry Murphy's crime was NOT paedophilia which is where the hysteria started, but the craziness is spreading.]


  • Kilbarry1

Sex Crime and Public Hysteria (2)

....I seem to recall another radio interview in which the brother said that his son had to change school 2 or 3 times because he was being harassed about his UNCLE Larry Murphy. ....

Well now I couldn't locate a report of that interview in our "newspaper of record" the Irish Times but I see that The Irish Daily Star has it. And my memory was slightly off. Tom Murphy had to move his CHILDREN (not just his son) three times between schools because of the abuse they were getting from other children.
Larry Murphy tracked down to secret hideout
[dated 28 November 2012 ?]

..... And last night a brother of the notorious rapist spoke out about his family’s torment over his brother’s crime — adding that a documentary to be broadcast tonight will reopen his families wounds.

Heartbroken Tom Murphy told The Star he has been forced to move his children from school three times because of ongoing publicity in the wake of Larry’s release from prison.

“This is a never-ending nightmare for me and my family and now to see it all being dredged up again… it’s just heartbreaking,” Tom Murphy said.

“People had a right to know when Larry was being released from prison and I have no argument with that… people needed to know that he was out and what he has done.

But Tom added: “But the stories that have been written since then… some of which were pure lies and related to me and my family have destroyed our lives.

“I have had to move my children between schools three times over the abuse they are getting from the other children.”
....


It's a pity that The Star did not make that rather important fact their headline (instead of "Larry Murphy Tracked Down to Secret Hideout") as it would have made it much easier to find. HOWEVER note that they repeated it twice in their report. 

So I will repeat my main point. If that obscene scenario had occurred during the Age of De Valera and McQuaid, we would be hearing about it still. It wouldn't be necessary to spend time trawling the internet to find the basic facts.
Last edited by Kilbarry1; 25th January 2016 at 12:56 AM.

  • Kilbarry1 27 January 2016
[  Originally Posted by Don Wan 
Beware of the stupidity of vigilantes.

Doctor driven out of home by vigilantes

Self-styled vigilantes attacked the home of a hospital paediatrician after apparently confusing her professional title with the word "paedophile", it emerged yesterday.

Dr Yvette Cloete, a specialist registrar in paediatric medicine at the Royal Gwent hospital in Newport, was forced to flee her house after vandals daubed it with graffiti in the middle of the night.

Doctor driven out of home by vigilantes | UK news | The Guardian ]

A good example of vigilante hysteria in one way but this incident has also been exaggerated. The likely culprit was a teenager or 2 and the doctor was supported by neighbours but nevertheless moved out because she felt uncomfortable. I have read reports in which she was supposedly forced out by a mob.

MOST cases of mob hysteria are either covered up or briefly reported and then forgotten. The reason why this one is widely known (and indeed exaggerated) is that it followed a News of the World campaign to "name and shame" child abusers. Thus so-called "respectable" journalists could claim that it was the fault the tabloid press or "gutter" journalists. In fact hysteria about sex crimes has been fueled mainly by RESPECTABLE media like the UK Guardian, The Times and - in Ireland - the Irish Times. Sometimes it is the "gutter" journalists who actually expose the hysteria - as with the Irish Daily Star interview with the brother of Larry Murphy.[See Post #134] This is because the "gutter" journalists are not much concerned with ideology and Political Correctness and will publish ANYTHING - including stuff that shows the ant-sex-crime mob in a bad light!


  • Kilbarry1

[ Originally Posted by Ã‰ireann_Ascendant 
True...but that's an argument for longer sentences and the like. 

You get repeat offenders who will never change, but you also get innocent people caught up with 'paedo scares':

Disabled man burned to death by vigilantes who wrongly suspected him of being a paedophile

Thugs beat up a ­vulnerable disabled man and burned him to death because they mistakenly believed he was a paedophile.

Neighbours accused Bijan Ebrahimi, 44, of being a pervert when he was seen taking photos of youths vandalising his hanging baskets.

A court heard the rumours led to the keen gardener’s horrific death when Lee James, 24, kicked him­ ­unconscious.

With the help of pal Stephen Norley, James then dragged him outside, soaked him in white spirit and set him alight.

Police earlier took Mr ­Ebrahami away for questioning as an angry mob chanted “paedo, paedo”, but he was released when officers found he had done nothing wrong.
]

This horrific case is far less known than the one about the "paediatrician mistaken for a paedophile" - possibly because our "liberal" journalists, so keen to expose abuse of power by bishops or politicians, have no wish to investigate the results of their own hate-filled outpourings. They can't blame this one on the Catholic Church or Tory grandees or even the News of the World so it has gone down the memory hole even though it happened less than 3 years ago. But imagine if it had happened in Dublin in the 1950s when De Valera was Taoiseach and John Charles McQuaid was Archbishop. People like Fintan O'Toole and Vincent Browne would be ranting about it still!

Sunday, January 24, 2016

Westminster Paedophile Ring: How Witch-Hunt Began. Tom Watson (1)



Tom Watson,  Labour Party Deputy Leader - in Attack Mode
A recent article in The Daily Telegraph by their chief reporter Robert Mendick includes a useful summary of the genesis and course-to-date of the lunatic witch-hunt directly (mainly) against Tory grandees in the UK. It follows the police announcement that they have found no evidence to support child abuse allegations against Lord Bramall, former head of the British Army. 

Apologies for poaching most of The Telegraph article here. It has been my experience (in Ireland anyway) that some very interesting articles regarding false allegations seem to become unavailable afterwards online and I certainly would not like it to happen with this one. Also people get confused with the multitude of  allegations and fail to recognise the links between them. The current Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, Tom Watson is the link that unites numerous allegations - nearly all directed against senior Conservatives. Lord Bramall called that development "sinister" and I couldn't agree more. I intend to write more about the role of Tom Watson e.g. in relation to the allegations against former Home Secretary Leon Brittan and former Conservative Party Treasurer (and friend of Margaret Thatcher) Lord McAlpine.

Rory Connor
24 January 2016

Lord Bramall Cleared: How Lurid Allegations Were Wrongly Declared 'Credible and True'

Lord Bramall at his home in Crondall, Hampshire

It seems obvious now. A man – we can only identify him as “Nick” – went to the police some time in 2014 and told them over the course of three interviews, amounting to 70 hours of video-taped testimony, that he had been abused and tortured by a powerful cabal of paedophiles.

They included Sir Edward Heath, the former prime minister, Lord Brittan, the former home secretary, and two generals, one of them Lord Bramall, Britain’s most decorated officer. Two ex-heads of MI5 and MI6 were also implicated.
Nick had witnessed three murders, including the throttling of a boy by Harvey Proctor, a former Tory MP. [My Emphasis]
Nick himself had a lucky escape, he told police. Mr Proctor, he alleged, had attempted to castrate him with a penknife borrowed from Sir Edward, who had then intervened to save his life.
Nick’s allegation may appear ludicrous, but not to Scotland Yard’s finest detectives. “I believe what Nick is saying is credible and true,”
Det Supt Kenny McDonald said on Dec 18, 2014. At the time, he was heading the Metropolitan Police’s inquiry into claims of a VIP paedophile gang operating in Westminster. Overnight, the lurid allegations had become fact.
The police’s belief that Nick was telling the truth would lead detectives to the door of Lord Bramall, a 92-year-old veteran of the Normandy landings and the former head of the Army. Lord Brittan, Sir Edward and Mr Proctor would also have their reputations damaged by claims that began to leak to the media. .........

The failure [to investigate allegations against Jimmy Saville]  heralded a new era in which the police’s starting point when investigating historic abuse was to believe all victims of abuse. Then came the bombshell. Tom Watson, now the deputy leader of the Labour Party, having built his reputation as a campaigner on hacking and child abuse, stood up in the Commons in October 2012 and told David Cameron that he had obtained a file containing evidence of the existence of VIP paedophile ring. [My emphasis]
He said: “I want to ensure that the Metropolitan Police secure the evidence, re-examine it and investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful paedophile network linked to Parliament and No 10.
Mr Watson had set the hares running. It may not be a coincidence that the prime suspects in this “witch hunt” were largely senior Conservatives and members of the establishment. Lord Bramall called that development “sinister”. [My emphasis]
Exaro, a news website with close links to Mr Watson, took up the cause. It interviewed two key alleged victims – both of whom claimed they had seen children murdered by the paedophile gang. One was called Darren (not his real name), who claimed he had witnessed a young man with Down’s syndrome being torn apart by paedophiles who had tied him to car bumpers and then reversed. He also claimed he had seen a teenage girl tortured to death at a flat in Dolphin Square, central London.
The Telegraph would later disclose that Darren had been jailed for making hoax bomb calls and had falsely confessed to the murder of a prostitute. Suffolk Police, who investigated the claims in September last year, came to the conclusion there was no evidence to corroborate his lurid allegations. Darren, to their minds, appeared to be a publicity- seeking fantasist.
Questions are now being asked of Nick. Police insist they were doing their duty in investigating his claims and it was not their fault that the identities of his alleged attackers were made public.
Mr Proctor is not convinced. He told The Telegraph that he was convinced police had informed Nick of their plans to raid simultaneously his home and the houses of Lord Brittan and Lord Bramall, and to then conduct interviews under caution.
He is further convinced that Nick told Exaro. Whatever the truth, the reality is a mess.
Post-Savile, the pendulum had swung so far in favour of believing alleged victims that their so-called attackers found themselves in the dock without a shred of evidence against them.
Lord Bramall’s wife died without knowing her husband had been cleared, while Lord Brittan went to his grave unaware that he had been cleared of a historic rape allegation involving a young woman.
Their good names had been tarnished, but now – following the latest developments – it will be the reputation of the Metropolitan Police that takes the biggest hit.

Monday, January 18, 2016

Mein Kampf and Ireland

 
The Official 1939 Edition


I contributed the following to a "Spiked" discussion on the subject "Germans Must Be Free to Read Mein Kampf"
Germans Must Be Free to Read Mein Kampf

When I was a teenager in the 1960s, I came across a shortish English version of Mein Kampf - a green hard cover book about 250 pages. It was probably printed in the 1930s for Hitler's English speaking admirers. I read it- or some of it - and it must have made an impression because I still recall two key points he made. (Incidentally, I was already a dyed-in-the-wool reactionary, so I won't blame that on Der Fuhrer).
The first point was Hitler explaining that ordinary Party members can become confused and discouraged if they perceive that their opponents represent a wide spectrum of public opinion. Therefore all opposition must be seen as coming from ONE demonic source - hence the Jewish/Bolshevik Conspiracy I suppose. The second point I recall was that, while Hitler was a great admirer of Bismark, he criticized his hero for conducting a campaign against the Catholic Church in Germany (the Kulturkampf in the 1870s.).Even then I realized that Hitler was NOT "tolerant" in religious matters; it was simply that Racial hatred was the real issue for him and Religious strife was a diversion (same for Class hatred - he didn't hate the German Proletariat).
I have written a lot about the modern day Kulturkampf against the Catholic Church and I believe Hitler's insights are definitely still valid. FOR EXAMPLE there are scores of religious orders and congregations in Ireland but every single allegation of child murder has been directed against the Christian Brothers (male) or the Sisters of Mercy (female). Moreover ALL of the allegations that relate to periods when no child died of ANY cause, have been directed against the Christian Brothers alone. I have coined the phrase "Murder of the Undead" in relation to the latter claims and I think the accusation should be officially recognised as the "liberal" equivalent of the Jewish/Bolshevik Conspiracy theory.
I did not need an anodyne and annotated version of Hitler's masterpiece to reach the above conclusion!
[The following is a 2006 summary I made of most of the child-killing allegations. (At the time I forgot about the one directed at the Sisters of Mercy 10 years previously.)
I have an updated version of the 2006 letter here: