Cliff Richard and Child Abuse Hysteria

Spiked-OnLine have a interesting article by Luke Gittos their Law Editor entitled

  The Cliff Richard Case: Another Homophobic Witch-Hunt

and subtitle "The Paedophile  Panic has rehabilitated some age-old prejudices"

I generally agree with Spiked and Luke Gittos on this topic but I suspect that "homophobia" has little to do with Cliff Richard's ordeal.

I contributed to the discussion myself as follows: 

  

Kilbarry1 

Has everyone here forgotten that the lunatic child-murder allegations began in Ireland NOT the UK, lasted for about a decade and were actually declining here when they started up in the UK (i.e. with the Haut de la Garenne witch-hunt in Jersey in 2008)?

I attempted a summary of the Irish blood libels in a 2006 "Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child Killing Allegations". I think all of the journalists and leaders of "Victims" groups would have very PC attitudes to homosexuals - definitely no homophobia involved in OUR witch-hunt.
http://www.irishsalem.com/iris...

Since many of the child murder claims related to periods when no child died of any cause, I coined the phrases "Murder of the Undead" and "Victimless Murders". The claims in relation to Jersey and "Operation Midland" were ALSO of the "Victimless Murder" variety. In Jersey the deputy police chief responsible for the fiasco was born in Derry, must have heard of the Irish claims but probably did not realise they had been discredited because our anti-clerical media had covered up THAT story.

I suppose I can't fault Luke Gittos for not realising this. At the time I drew up my summary, I managed to forget about the original blood libel in 1996 which was directed against the Sisters of Mercy rather than the Christian Brothers. However you can read all about it here
http://www.irishsalem.com/iris...
with all of the gory details in a Daily Mirror article on 11 October 1997 (also available on line):

HOT POKER WAS USED ON LITTLE MARION.. NO CASH WILL GET HER BACK; I THINK MY BABY WAS MURDERED AT THE ORPHANAGE, SAYS PAYOUT MUM

The hatred involved here is of the anti-clerical variety and I doubt if there was a single homophobe among the false accusers.

P.S. The main victims of this witch-hunt in the UK seem to be either political or cultural Tories. Blood Libels directed against such persons are probably the UK equivalent of Irish anti-clericalism?

anonuk  Kilbarry1 • 

What are you claiming? That there were no sadistic nuns or pervy Brothers? That the whole thing was a pernicious lie?

Kilbarry1  anonuk •

The use of Blood Libels against the Christian Brothers, Sisters of Mercy and later priests (after I wrote my 2006 article) is a pretty clear indication that the whole thing is a pernicious lie. That doesn't mean that there were NO clerical or religious sex offenders. Similarly the use of Blood Libels against Jews doesn't mean that there are NO Jewish criminals.

Incidentally the main allegation about clerical involvement in the murder of a child (Bernadette Connolly in 1970) was orchestrated in 2009 by the then Fine Gael spokesman for Justice. The Gardai (police) carried out a year long investigation that found no evidence of any Catholic Church involvement and a few months later the same politician was appointed Minister for Justice. Yes the whole thing is an obscene witch-hunt orchestrated from the top - and quite similar to the Deputy leader of the Labour Party in the UK supporting obscene lies about the Tories. (The latter witch-hunt involved child-murder as well.)

The Irish child-killing witch-hunts preceded their UK equivalents, and may well have caused them. What other European country has seen left wing/anti-clerical politicians using Blood Libels against the the Catholic Church or Conservatives??

Twisk  Kilbarry1 

I'd say, pretty much every country with a strong Catholic presence has seen its anti-clerical left wing attacking the Church for pedophilia.
Which was often true, and proved. 

Even though, this left wing itself harbours its own pedophiles - in my country, you'll find them mainly among the Greens and the mainstream liberal left wing.They seem to think pedophilia is cool or something.

Kilbarry1  Twisk •

"Which was often true and proved"
I concentrated on the child-murder allegations because these are things that can be properly investigated even decades later. The leaders of FOUR "Victims" groups were involved in such claims as were several Irish journalists. Since the same persons were up to their necks in non-lethal child abuse claims as well, I think it's a fair assumption that all of their allegations are false.

And what about the ordinary members of these "Victims" groups? Did they protest when they saw their leaders making ludicrous claims that could easily be proved false? Did they replace these leaders or resign in protest? Well no - presumably because own allegations were also false (though less easy to prove so).

For years Ireland was the only country with "Murder of the Undead" type allegations i.e. where no child died of ANY cause during the relevant period. Then Britain followed with the "Haut de la Garenne" investigations in 2008 and Operation Midland recently. The scapegoats in the UK are the Tories and the underlying reason is probably the final failure of the "liberal agenda" and the desire of hate-filled liberals to find someone else to blame!

Twisk  Kilbarry1 •

I don't know about child-murder allegations, even though similar accusations have been leveled in my country, but against liberal left-wing politicians. 

All I said was pedophilia is well documented within the Catholic Church, and that would be everywhere, not just Ireland. I add that Protestants have also been denounced as having the same rate of child abusers among their ministers - even though, as this data is less politically useful, its has not made the headlines. 

The accusations against the Catholic church in Ireland may well have been orchestrated by some Church-hating Soros-like group, but one thing is certain: if so many people were ready to believe the Church was guilty, it is because of the inescapable fact it has been in the past. 

If I was an anti-Catholic activist with a political agenda, of course I'd use that line myself. It's like shooting an elephant in a barrel.

Kilbarry1  Twisk • 

We will have to agree to disagree. HOWEVER "If so many people were ready to believe the Church was guilty, it is because ..... it has been in the past".

In January 2006 the Sunday Tribune declared that the number of homicides in 2005 had been the highest in the history of the State - at least since the Civil War of the early 1920s. The statistics for all other crimes of violence show the same pattern. I believe the same applies to the suicide rate. I know that the number of children taken into care during the Celtic Tiger years increased greatly - I think from under 4,000 to over 6,000 at a time when Ireland was filthy rich - AND the Church was declining. I find it impossible to believe that the incidence of child sexual abuse is any different i.e. it MUST be greater now than say the 1950s, when the power of the Catholic Church was at its height.

So what is behind the war against the Catholic Church in Ireland and elsewhere? Well in one sense our anti-clerical liberals have won the Culture Wars - with our new-found anything-goes attitude to authority and sexual morality. But in a more profound sense they have lost the war - in relation to crime, suicide and drug abuse for example - and they know it.. Having spent decades blaming the Church for all our evils, they have no way of dealing with our REAL current problems. Their response has been to howl obscenities at the Church and at their own forefathers who deferred to it.Saying that there must be SOME reality behind all these allegations is like making a similar point about Satanic Ritual Abuse or the Salem witch-hunts. Or indeed about the 9 separate accusers of Cliff Richard. (The police and the BBC gave vast publicity to the original false allegation and THAT encouraged all the others to come forward. There is no great mystery about it!)

In the UK, the Tories are stand-ins for the Catholic Church in Ireland (partly because the Anglican Church has provided little resistance to the new liberal order).

Twisk  Kilbarry1 •

We do not disagree. I am quite sure that the attacks against the Catholic Church serve an agenda indeed, that of the liberalization of the whole of society. If I may add a personal observation, I generally find atheists (or Anglicans, or liberal Protestants) way easier to manipulate through propaganda than the Catholics, who have strong convictions and are not easily swayed. Hence, if you want a pliant population, it makes sense to try and destroy Catholicism.

Which does not mean the Church is altogether free of guilt... unfortunately.

Kilbarry1  Twisk • 

I agree about the Anglicans, liberal Protestants etc being gullible and easily manipulated but unfortunately the rot has spread pretty far in the Irish Catholic Church also. I have written here about a (now retired) Bishop Willie Walsh whose acceptance of preposterous allegations caused mirth, even among our anti-clerics.
http://www.irishsalem.com/indi...

There is also the Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin who displays similar credulity - though, in my opinion, he is less of a fool and more of a willing accomplice with the anti-clerical establishment. In February 2014 our national broadcaster RTE had to pay damages to named Catholic journalists who were described as "homophobes" by gay activist Miss Panti Bliss. There were furious protests by politicians and a mass rally denouncing the payout but RTE pointed out that they had no option - their presenter had actually encouraged Miss Panti Bliss to make the comment. Naturally the Archbishop of Dublin weighed in on the controversy
"Homophobia 'insults God', says Archbishop of Dublin"
http://www.independent.ie/iris...

Archbishop Diarmuid had nothing at all to say about the slandered Catholic journalists. In his autobiography "Woman in the Making", Miss Panti Bliss (Rory O'Neill) correctly observed that the Archbishop was on his side and I quote
"The Archbishop of Dublin denounced homophobia and practically declared himself to be on 'Team Panti'. [page 265]

It's true that if you want a pliant population it makes sense to destroy Catholicism, but the Irish Church is destroying itself. Incidentally I am well aware that their media representatives regard me as an extremist!

Twisk  Kilbarry1 • a day ago

If I may, the Pope is equally confusing and confused, and might be a tool too. There are rumours that say Pope Benedict was pushed out to be replaced by a more "Western values"-friendly and pliant Pope. 

It wouldn't surprise me.
http://catholicreformation.yuk...

Convicted Rapist Beaten and Chased Out of Dublin Suburb by Mob

Danny Ward - Beaten by Mob

This story actually dates back to June 2015 but a discussion on Politics.ie website has  recently resumed on the topic of how society should treat people who have been convicted of child sex abuse, have served their sentences and been released back into community. The Politics thread has a typical  title -

Kiddy fiddler attacked by mob in Dublin, should criminals be afforded anonymity?

Danny Ward - who is on the sex offenders register - was set upon in Ringsend by a number of men. He had been staying in a bed and breakfast in the area and  locals had just found out about it. Ward had been drinking in a local pub when he was spotted by a man who recognised him from previous media coverage. Apparently the man who spotted him called a few of his associates and Ward left the pub, but by this stage the other individuals arrived at the scene and Ward "suffered a few thumps" - in the words of the Evening Herald report.

Officers from the local Garda Station rushed to the scene. No arrests were made and according to the Herald report "sources said that there were no plans to make arrests in relation to the incident." Ward was brought to St Vincent's Hospital, where he received treatment for what were described as minor injuries. Sources told the Herald that he will now be "re-housed" in another location. 

Ward has been driven out of a Dublin community before.  In October 2014, locals gathered outside a northside bed and breakfast to protest at his residence there. Reports that he had been spotted acting suspiciously outside of a girls' school in Glasnevin saw a group of angry parents gather at his residence and demand he be moved on. Apparently "details of his sentence or crime can't be published in order to protect the identity of his victim, but as a convicted sex offender Ward is required to sign on at a garda station every seven days."

However sex offenders are not safe in the presence of the police either. There is a easily accessible video  on Facebook showing him being assaulted in Dun Laoghaire  garda station. Not surprisingly there was a follow-up headline in the Irish Daily Mirror on 1st August 2015

Notorious Paedophile Flees Ireland Vigilante Mobs - and is seen on board ferry heading to UK

TO BE CONTINUED

Extracts from discussion on politics.ie

• Dame_Enda   24 January 2016

I think that people are losing faith in the ability of the justice system to protect them and vigilanteeism like this is a symptom of that. The judiciary must accept some of the blame. This concurrent sentence thing needs to be weeded out, and judges should get compulsory training in victim-sensitivity.

A few days ago an American cop received a 265 year sentence for taping African American women.

• Kilbarry1   25 January 2016

Sex Crime and Public Hysteria

[ Originally Posted by Uh oooh 

He has done his time, he has paid his debt to society, does he not deserve protection? ]

[ Originally Posted by freewillie 

So has Larry Murphy ]

Here's an extract from The Journal following Larry Murphy's release from jail.
Larry Murphy · The42

LARRY MURPHY Aug 15th 2010, 6:47 PM

THE BROTHER OF convicted rapist Larry Murphy has spoken of his inability to understand how anyone could “carry out a crime like that”.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio One yesterday, Tom Murphy said that he was being ostracised in his home town of Baltinglass, Co Wicklow. Murphy said that people who knew him were turning away from him in the street because he is Larry’s brother.

He emphasised that Larry would not be staying with him following his release from prison three days ago, and said that their family has been destroyed by him. ...... 

I seem to recall another radio interview in which the brother said that his son had to change school 2 or 3 times because he was being harassed about his UNCLE Larry Murphy. 

If that kind of thing had occurred half a century ago during "The Age of De Valera" (and of John Charles McQuaid), our Irish "liberals" would be screaming about it still and claiming that the repressive sexual morality imposed by the Catholic Church had fueled public hysteria . 

[Incidentally Larry Murphy's crime was NOT paedophilia which is where the hysteria started, but the craziness is spreading.]

• Kilbarry1

Sex Crime and Public Hysteria (2)

....I seem to recall another radio interview in which the brother said that his son had to change school 2 or 3 times because he was being harassed about his UNCLE Larry Murphy. ....

Well now I couldn't locate a report of that interview in our "newspaper of record" the Irish Times but I see that The Irish Daily Star has it. And my memory was slightly off. Tom Murphy had to move his CHILDREN (not just his son) three times between schools because of the abuse they were getting from other children.
Larry Murphy tracked down to secret hideout
[dated 28 November 2012 ?]

..... And last night a brother of the notorious rapist spoke out about his family’s torment over his brother’s crime — adding that a documentary to be broadcast tonight will reopen his families wounds.

Heartbroken Tom Murphy told The Star he has been forced to move his children from school three times because of ongoing publicity in the wake of Larry’s release from prison.

“This is a never-ending nightmare for me and my family and now to see it all being dredged up again… it’s just heartbreaking,” Tom Murphy said.

“People had a right to know when Larry was being released from prison and I have no argument with that… people needed to know that he was out and what he has done.

But Tom added: “But the stories that have been written since then… some of which were pure lies and related to me and my family have destroyed our lives.

“I have had to move my children between schools three times over the abuse they are getting from the other children.”....

It's a pity that The Star did not make that rather important fact their headline (instead of "Larry Murphy Tracked Down to Secret Hideout") as it would have made it much easier to find. HOWEVER note that they repeated it twice in their report. 

So I will repeat my main point. If that obscene scenario had occurred during the Age of De Valera and McQuaid, we would be hearing about it still. It wouldn't be necessary to spend time trawling the internet to find the basic facts.

Last edited by Kilbarry1; 25th January 2016 at 12:56 AM.

• Kilbarry1 27 January 2016

[  Originally Posted by Don Wan 

Beware of the stupidity of vigilantes.

Doctor driven out of home by vigilantes

Self-styled vigilantes attacked the home of a hospital paediatrician after apparently confusing her professional title with the word "paedophile", it emerged yesterday.

Dr Yvette Cloete, a specialist registrar in paediatric medicine at the Royal Gwent hospital in Newport, was forced to flee her house after vandals daubed it with graffiti in the middle of the night.

Doctor driven out of home by vigilantes | UK news | The Guardian ]

A good example of vigilante hysteria in one way but this incident has also been exaggerated. The likely culprit was a teenager or 2 and the doctor was supported by neighbours but nevertheless moved out because she felt uncomfortable. I have read reports in which she was supposedly forced out by a mob.

MOST cases of mob hysteria are either covered up or briefly reported and then forgotten. The reason why this one is widely known (and indeed exaggerated) is that it followed a News of the World campaign to "name and shame" child abusers. Thus so-called "respectable" journalists could claim that it was the fault the tabloid press or "gutter" journalists. In fact hysteria about sex crimes has been fueled mainly by RESPECTABLE media like the UK Guardian, The Times and - in Ireland - the Irish Times. Sometimes it is the "gutter" journalists who actually expose the hysteria - as with the Irish Daily Star interview with the brother of Larry Murphy.[See Post #134] This is because the "gutter" journalists are not much concerned with ideology and Political Correctness and will publish ANYTHING - including stuff that shows the ant-sex-crime mob in a bad light!

• Kilbarry1

[ Originally Posted by Éireann_Ascendant 

True...but that's an argument for longer sentences and the like. 

You get repeat offenders who will never change, but you also get innocent people caught up with 'paedo scares':

Disabled man burned to death by vigilantes who wrongly suspected him of being a paedophile

Thugs beat up a ­vulnerable disabled man and burned him to death because they mistakenly believed he was a paedophile.

Neighbours accused Bijan Ebrahimi, 44, of being a pervert when he was seen taking photos of youths vandalising his hanging baskets.

A court heard the rumours led to the keen gardener’s horrific death when Lee James, 24, kicked him­ ­unconscious.

With the help of pal Stephen Norley, James then dragged him outside, soaked him in white spirit and set him alight.

Police earlier took Mr ­Ebrahami away for questioning as an angry mob chanted “paedo, paedo”, but he was released when officers found he had done nothing wrong. ]

This horrific case is far less known than the one about the "paediatrician mistaken for a paedophile" - possibly because our "liberal" journalists, so keen to expose abuse of power by bishops or politicians, have no wish to investigate the results of their own hate-filled outpourings. They can't blame this one on the Catholic Church or Tory grandees or even the News of the World so it has gone down the memory hole even though it happened less than 3 years ago. But imagine if it had happened in Dublin in the 1950s when De Valera was Taoiseach and John Charles McQuaid was Archbishop. People like Fintan O'Toole and Vincent Browne would be ranting about it still!

Westminster Paedophile Ring: How Witch-Hunt Began. Tom Watson (1)

Tom Watson,  Labour Party Deputy Leader - in Attack Mode

A recent article in The Daily Telegraph by their chief reporter Robert Mendick includes a useful summary of the genesis and course-to-date of the lunatic witch-hunt directly (mainly) against Tory grandees in the UK. It follows the police announcement that they have found no evidence to support child abuse allegations against Lord Bramall, former head of the British Army. 

Apologies for poaching most of The Telegraph article here. It has been my experience (in Ireland anyway) that some very interesting articles regarding false allegations seem to become unavailable afterwards online and I certainly would not like it to happen with this one. Also people get confused with the multitude of  allegations and fail to recognise the links between them. The current Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, Tom Watson is the link that unites numerous allegations - nearly all directed against senior Conservatives. Lord Bramall called that development "sinister" and I couldn't agree more. I intend to write more about the role of Tom Watson e.g. in relation to the allegations against former Home Secretary Leon Brittan and former Conservative Party Treasurer (and friend of Margaret Thatcher) Lord McAlpine.

Rory Connor
24 January 2016

Lord Bramall Cleared: How Lurid Allegations Were Wrongly Declared 'Credible and True'

Lord Bramall at his home in Crondall, Hampshire

It seems obvious now. A man – we can only identify him as “Nick” – went to the police some time in 2014 and told them over the course of three interviews, amounting to 70 hours of video-taped testimony, that he had been abused and tortured by a powerful cabal of paedophiles.

They included Sir Edward Heath, the former prime minister, Lord Brittan, the former home secretary, and two generals, one of them Lord Bramall, Britain’s most decorated officer. Two ex-heads of MI5 and MI6 were also implicated.

Nick had witnessed three murders, including the throttling of a boy by Harvey Proctor, a former Tory MP. [My Emphasis]

Nick himself had a lucky escape, he told police. Mr Proctor, he alleged, had attempted to castrate him with a penknife borrowed from Sir Edward, who had then intervened to save his life.

Nick’s allegation may appear ludicrous, but not to Scotland Yard’s finest detectives. “I believe what Nick is saying is credible and true,”

Det Supt Kenny McDonald said on Dec 18, 2014. At the time, he was heading the Metropolitan Police’s inquiry into claims of a VIP paedophile gang operating in Westminster. Overnight, the lurid allegations had become fact.

The police’s belief that Nick was telling the truth would lead detectives to the door of Lord Bramall, a 92-year-old veteran of the Normandy landings and the former head of the Army. Lord Brittan, Sir Edward and Mr Proctor would also have their reputations damaged by claims that began to leak to the media. .........

The failure [to investigate allegations against Jimmy Saville]  heralded a new era in which the police’s starting point when investigating historic abuse was to believe all victims of abuse. Then came the bombshell. Tom Watson, now the deputy leader of the Labour Party, having built his reputation as a campaigner on hacking and child abuse, stood up in the Commons in October 2012 and told David Cameron that he had obtained a file containing evidence of the existence of VIP paedophile ring. [My emphasis]

He said: “I want to ensure that the Metropolitan Police secure the evidence, re-examine it and investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful paedophile network linked to Parliament and No 10.”

Mr Watson had set the hares running. It may not be a coincidence that the prime suspects in this “witch hunt” were largely senior Conservatives and members of the establishment. Lord Bramall called that development “sinister”. [My emphasis]

Exaro, a news website with close links to Mr Watson, took up the cause. It interviewed two key alleged victims – both of whom claimed they had seen children murdered by the paedophile gang. One was called Darren (not his real name), who claimed he had witnessed a young man with Down’s syndrome being torn apart by paedophiles who had tied him to car bumpers and then reversed. He also claimed he had seen a teenage girl tortured to death at a flat in Dolphin Square, central London.

The Telegraph would later disclose that Darren had been jailed for making hoax bomb calls and had falsely confessed to the murder of a prostitute. Suffolk Police, who investigated the claims in September last year, came to the conclusion there was no evidence to corroborate his lurid allegations. Darren, to their minds, appeared to be a publicity- seeking fantasist.

Questions are now being asked of Nick. Police insist they were doing their duty in investigating his claims and it was not their fault that the identities of his alleged attackers were made public.

Mr Proctor is not convinced. He told The Telegraph that he was convinced police had informed Nick of their plans to raid simultaneously his home and the houses of Lord Brittan and Lord Bramall, and to then conduct interviews under caution.

He is further convinced that Nick told Exaro. Whatever the truth, the reality is a mess.

Post-Savile, the pendulum had swung so far in favour of believing alleged victims that their so-called attackers found themselves in the dock without a shred of evidence against them.

Lord Bramall’s wife died without knowing her husband had been cleared, while Lord Brittan went to his grave unaware that he had been cleared of a historic rape allegation involving a young woman.

Their good names had been tarnished, but now – following the latest developments – it will be the reputation of the Metropolitan Police that takes the biggest hit.

Mein Kampf and Ireland

 

The Official 1939 Edition

I contributed the following to a "Spiked" discussion on the subject "Germans Must Be Free to Read Mein Kampf"
Germans Must Be Free to Read Mein Kampf

When I was a teenager in the 1960s, I came across a shortish English version of Mein Kampf - a green hard cover book about 250 pages. It was probably printed in the 1930s for Hitler's English speaking admirers. I read it- or some of it - and it must have made an impression because I still recall two key points he made. (Incidentally, I was already a dyed-in-the-wool reactionary, so I won't blame that on Der Fuhrer).

The first point was Hitler explaining that ordinary Party members can become confused and discouraged if they perceive that their opponents represent a wide spectrum of public opinion. Therefore all opposition must be seen as coming from ONE demonic source - hence the Jewish/Bolshevik Conspiracy I suppose. The second point I recall was that, while Hitler was a great admirer of Bismark, he criticized his hero for conducting a campaign against the Catholic Church in Germany (the Kulturkampf in the 1870s.).Even then I realized that Hitler was NOT "tolerant" in religious matters; it was simply that Racial hatred was the real issue for him and Religious strife was a diversion (same for Class hatred - he didn't hate the German Proletariat).

I have written a lot about the modern day Kulturkampf against the Catholic Church and I believe Hitler's insights are definitely still valid. FOR EXAMPLE there are scores of religious orders and congregations in Ireland but every single allegation of child murder has been directed against the Christian Brothers (male) or the Sisters of Mercy (female). Moreover ALL of the allegations that relate to periods when no child died of ANY cause, have been directed against the Christian Brothers alone. I have coined the phrase "Murder of the Undead" in relation to the latter claims and I think the accusation should be officially recognised as the "liberal" equivalent of the Jewish/Bolshevik Conspiracy theory.

I did not need an anodyne and annotated version of Hitler's masterpiece to reach the above conclusion!

[The following is a 2006 summary I made of most of the child-killing allegations. (At the time I forgot about the one directed at the Sisters of Mercy 10 years previously.)

Letter to Sunday Tribune Re Child Killing Allegations  ]

NOTE: December 2018

I have an updated version of the 2006 letter here:

Blood Libel in Ireland - directed against Catholics not Jews!

Labour Councillors Join Mob Harrasment of Innocent Family - CONTINUED

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin - Sins of Omission re Child Sex Abuse

This atrocious story - mobs harassing the family of a man who had a two-decades-old conviction for sex with a minor - gained a certain amount of publicity in 2010 but has now been practically forgotten. If it had occurred 50 years ago, our anti-clerical media would be ranting about it still.

At the time there was a brief but heated controversy on the Politics.ie website - to which I contributed of course. The following contains some  extracts from the discussion

Labour Councillors Join Mob Harassment of Innocent Family

I concluded my own contribution to the discussion in 2010 as follows:

The family have been hounded out of Kilcoole, Redcross, Rathnew and Ashford. I think they are all in the Archdiocese of Dublin which covers most of Co. Wicklow as well. Ashford certainlly is and that is where their house was burned down.

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin has become a great hero of the liberal media because of the way he has dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse. He cannot make a speech without denouncing the evils of abuse and apologising for the way the Church dealt with them in the past. He even put pressure on Bishop Martin Drennan to resign even though NO criticism had been made of him in the Murphy Report. (Like the Wicklow mob, the Archbishop seems to believe in guilt by association.)

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, John Cooney, Kathy O'Beirne, Bishop Dermot O'Mahony

Would it be too much to ask the Archbishop to condemn the behaviour of the people who hound an innocent mother and her four children? The mob are abusing these innocents. Moreover the hysteria and fanaticism generated by the mob will rebound on real victims of child sexual abuse in the future. Cynicism is what normally follows after Hysteria.

Rory Connor
16 January 2016

LABOUR COUNCILLORS JOIN MOB HARRASSMENT OF INNOCENT FAMILY

[extract from Politics.ie discussion in July 2010]

·         onlyasking

The ugly face of modern Ireland is on show in Wicklow, led by rabble-rousing Labour councillors.
Innocent relatives of a man convicted of a sex offence 18 years ago are being hounded out of Wicklow, with the charge being led by Labour Party councillors. The man was given a suspended six month sentence 18 years ago for 'Unlawful Carnal Knowledge of a Minor'.

This unfortunate family has been run out of a string of locations across Wicklow following mob-protests, culminating in the burning of a local authority house yesterday.
It is my understanding that relatives of convicted criminals are not found guilty through blood association. Indeed, they are entirely innocent unless found guilty. Collective punishments, to my knowledge, are illegal in this state and almost all others.

Labour councillors, having realised the local electoral difficulties they would face through behaving with humanity, compassion and christian or humanist decency, have ditched any hint of such qualities and have aligned themselves with the baying mob. Of course they 'utterly condemn the burning of the house' by fellow-protestors. Yeah, right. The fact that the arson occured while the protestors stood outside the house makes a laughing-stock of such hand-wringing.

Here is an innocent family being hounded from pillar to post. That's an ugly modern manifestation of the dark impulses that lay behind the burning of women as witches a few hundred years ago.
It is simply a disgrace that the party founded by James Connolly would be involved in such a campaign of naked harrassment against a woman and her children who have undoubtedly suffered terribly through the actions of one of their relatives.

Of course I realise that people are concerned for the safety of their children. It would appear that the man at the centre has not re-offended in over 18 ears, and it is also clear that children are at vastly greater risk of being sexually abused within the home than at the hands of strangers.
Would the wife of a man of 80 with a single similar conviction from 60 years ago be chased out of Wicklow? On this evidence, quite possibly. Would it be justifiable? Obviously not.

I daresay some or most of the members of this mob attend church and pretend they are christians. Can they imagine the Christ they pay lip-service to condoning this type of behaviour, or would they imagine him standing against the mob.
Will any member of this family ever be allowed to live in peace? Ever?

This brings disgrace on any elected representative who joins the mob, regardless of what party they represent. So far, Labour has been to the fore in this dark episode.
It's amazing how a sniff of government can infect a political party, putting a sledgehammer through its moral compass.

·        Kilbarry1

Hysteria re Child Abuse

Some people seem to be assuming that while it is wrong to target the family of a former sex offender, it is "understandable" to target the man himself. This man was convicted 18 years ago, given a six months sentence and has not offended since. He has a right to live with his family and they with him. Even if the Council told his family that they would be housed, provided that he did not stay with them, this would be unjust and probably unconstitutional.

A few years ago there was a case in Wales where a policeman Geoffrey Harries was ACCUSED of possessing child pornography. He and his wife were forced out of their home. They went to live with his mother. A "concerned" neighbour then vandalised his car at night. He confronted the man and was stabbed to death. AFTER his death the police put up TV cameras on the outside of the mothers house to protect her from the the "concerned" neighbours. One reader's comment on THAT newspaper story was:
If they place people on bail, for contentious acts, to houses without consulting neighbours, what do you expect Sandra Jones, Swansea

Geoffrey Harries, Daniel Williams, Murdered "Child Porn" Policeman

Anyone who condones mob violence against a real or suspected sex offender is targetting the family as well.

·         Cato

[ Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 

 This man was convicted 18 years ago, given a six months sentence and has not offended since. ]

How do you know that? The most we can say is that he has not been convicted since. You are making a dangerous assumption there given the recidivism rate.

·         Kilbarry1

[ Originally Posted by Oldira1 

What you are saying is that a family should disown their husband/father in order to get a roof over their head? This crime was 18 years ago and surely to God because a person has a past does not mean they should be denied a future. I too am a prent and while I would not be comfortable about a KNOWN sex offender living nearby I would accept it and be watchful. I would be far more worried about an UNKNOWN sex offender living nearby.
No child should ever ever be punished for the actions of a parent. ]

Council official Catherine Halligan, from the local authority's housing division, gave assurances that the sex offender would not move to the house and that only his partner and four children were to be housed. She said that the "appropriate checks" had been done and that the council had stipulated that the man was to be nowhere near the house. (Sunday Independent 4 July)

Actually it's quite clear that this man's partner and children will not be left alone by the mob even if they DO repudiate him.

I have already referred to the case where a Welsh policeman, accused of having child porn, and his wife were forced to leave their house and move in with his mother. The policeman was then murdered by a "concerned" resident. AFTER his murder the police installed CCTV cameras on the mothers house to protect her from the other "concerned" residents.

Geoffrey Harries, Daniel Williams, Murdered "Child Porn" Policeman

We are dealing with mob violence and hysteria. If these events had occured in 1950s Ireland, Diarmaid Ferriter would have a chapter about it in his book Occasions of Sin: Sex and Society in Modern Ireland (2009). It WILL be written about in future history books but next time it won't be possible to blame the Catholic Church!

·        godot

[ Originally Posted by Cato 

Again,it is possible that he may have re-offended and not come to the attention of the Gardaí. He may have led a blameless life since release. We cannot make a definitive statement either way. ]

It's possible you're a paedophile. We cannot make a definitive statement either way.
See the problem with this logic?

·         KingKane

By that logic no one would ever get a council house as they could have committed all kinds of offences but not been caught yet.

·         Kilbarry1

I saw an article by Emer O'Kelly on the subject in the Sunday Independent. The background is that the family wanted to live together, but due to the public hysteria the woman and her 4 children agreed to live seperatly from the man and the woman agreed not to associate with him but this was not enough for the mob and the house was burned down anyway.

Apparently the Labour councillors who put themselves at the head of the mob had no answer when asked if their colleagues in neighbouring counties would be happy to take on responsibility for the family. In fact they had no suggestion as to what should be done.

Innocent should not suffer by association - Analysis, Opinion - Independent.ie

The family wanted to live again as a unit and efforts were made to house them together in Kilcoole, Redcross, and Rathnew. Angry protests from local residents in each village ensured that the efforts were abandoned. In despair, the woman finally told council officials that she was prepared to abandon her hopes of living with her husband in a family unit, provided she and her children could be housed. She even signed an agreement to the effect that she would not have her husband visit her or their children. A house was provided in a housing estate in Ashford.

Last Friday week, her belongings had already been moved into the house when local residents gathered to protest against her being housed. The distressed woman was taken away by ambulance, and her children were removed by relatives. Satisfied, the mob melted away. Two nights later, the house was torched, and all the woman's possessions were destroyed in the fire.

The damage was so severe that the adjoining house had to be evacuated. The tenant was an 88-year-old woman who was distraught and terrified; the house had been renovated and adapted for her at considerable expense to the taxpayer. Now she too is homeless, and the public money spent on her house is down the tubes. 

If this happened in the 1930s, we would still be hearing about it in our history books (by Diarmaid Ferriter and Co) on how the Catholic Church whipped up sexual hysteria and how we are so much more "tolerant" nowadays.

·         Kilbarry1

When I say the Labour Councillors "put themselves at the head of the mob" I mean:

The following night, Wicklow County Council met. Nicky Kelly of Labour proposed a motion that for the future, council members should be informed of all housing allocations 10 days in advance of their implementation. But another Labour councillor, Conal Kavanagh, came up with an even more radical answer to the terrorising of an innocent family, and the destruction of public property. He proposed not merely that sex offenders be removed entirely from the Co Wicklow housing list, but that anyone "they consorted with" should be taken off the list. We're not talking about an internet child-molesting ring here. We're talking about family members who have committed no crime. Not a voice was raised, from any party, against this violation of civil rights. .....

The sex offender in this case, whose offence was 18 years ago, had been assessed by the Granada Institute (which specialises in the treatment of sexual crimes) as "low risk". That's as low as it gets: there is no such thing as "non-risk" for anyone. ......

But his wife and children have committed no offence. Yet Councillor Conal Kavanagh defends his own actions in trying to enshrine in council policy a system that could refuse housing to any family finding themselves in a similar situation in the future. The rights of an innocent family, he says, have to be "balanced" with the general good. And he added that it was "unfair" to expect the council to house the family; .......
Councillor Kavanagh went on to say that the people demonstrating against the housing of this innocent family were not a mob. Councillor Kavanagh met them last week, he says, and they were perfectly reasonable, concerned citizens.

If they were so reasonable, I asked, how did they react when he pointed out that the family had to be housed somewhere. But apparently he didn't point that out to the concerned citizens. But then, his motion, passed on the nod, wants to make housing such a family impossible. How did he feel about his Labour Party colleagues in neighbouring county jurisdictions, I asked. Did he think they would welcome having to deal with a problem which he had made for them? He didn't answer. 

Why was "not a voice was raised from any party" about councillors Kavanagh's vile motion? Presumably because all other councillors believed that to denounce it would cost them votes. The people who burned down the house were not ignorant vandals; they represented the community as did the Labour councillors.

• Kilbarry1

[ Originally Posted by magic_norhan 
WTF - The family were actually in a house in Wicklow Town - they were not homeless 
Also - The motion passed Unanimously - ALL parties supported it ]

"ALL parties supported it" but the Labour Party led the mob. I assume that the others did not object because they know that to do so would lose them votes.

Another quote from Emer O'Kelly's article:
One lonely figure stands out as the voice of reason and fairness: Michael Nicholson, the director of services with Wicklow County Council, who called what happened an example of mob mentality, and stands over that remark. 

I appreciate Michael Nicholson's courage but he is NOT a politician and therefore his job is not dependent on the mob. I notice that: 
Environment Minister John Gormley, who would have to endorse this cruel and discriminatory motion in Wicklow before it would be enforceable, has refused to comment. When I contacted his office, I was told that the department has no function in the case until Wicklow County Council lodges a request to alter its current statutory requirement to make it possible to hound the innocent families of sex offenders out of its jurisdiction.

It looks like John Gormley also recognises a vote-loser when he sees one!

• Kilbarry1

[ Originally Posted by magic_norhan 
Think about this though Wicklowboy - vigilante mobs will make the situation worse - society needs to put these people somewhere , and if they are continually chased out of areas by angry mobs they tend to go underground where things become much, much more dangerous. ]
True but over-stated. This man committed a sex offence 18 years ago that got him a suspended sentence of six months. The Granada Institute has described him as "low-risk" which is the lowest category of risk available. There is no one in the "no-risk" category. The person(s) who burned down the house and endangered an 88 year old neighbour in the process, are a greater danger to society than this man.

Also the people "chased out of areas by angry mobs" include this man's wife and four children. These were also specifically targetted by the Labour party motion as persons who "consorted with" their husband and father.

·         Kilbarry1

[ Originally Posted by Godot  (in reply to Murra)

Right, stick him on the town outskirts - if he wants to abuse minors, he will never think of going for a walk or using transport,ffs.
Anyway you're missing the point, it was his family which was being moved in and are being unfairly targeted. ]

There are 4 children in the family. I think they are aged between 8 and 15. They have been abused by mobs of people who are - by definition - more dangerous to children than this man who was convicted of a sex offence in 1992. And you can imagine the example they are giving to their own children!

Not entirely by co-incidence I came across this article in The Wicklow People dated 14 July
'Bad eggs' making life hell for council estate residents - News, frontpage - Wicklowpeople.ie

RESIDENTS OF a housing estate in Rathdrum are fed up with anti-social behaviour which is making their lives a misery, including allegations of drug dealing, all night parties and fights in broad daylight.

• Godot 

[ Originally Posted by Murra 

It was crazy for Wicklow Co Council to attempt to house a known sex offender on any council estate, most of which have kids playing about outside. They could surely have found a house on the outskirts of a town or village where there are no children nearby. It's understandable that nobody with kids wants a sex offender near them. ]

Right, stick him on the town outskirts - if he wants to abuse minors, he will never think of going for a walk or using transport,ffs.

Anyway you're missing the point, it was his family which was being moved in and are being unfairly targeted.

• Murra

[  Originally Posted by Godot 

Right, stick him on the town outskirts - if he wants to abuse minors, he will never think of going for a walk or using transport,ffs.
Anyway you're missing the point, it was his family which was being moved in and are being unfairly targeted. ]

Well, if he did walk in around a council estate - where he had no business - then he would be spotted by people. If he lives there, he'd be in and out all the time.

And it wasn't just his family that were being moved in - he was being moved in with them.

• Kilbarry1 

[ Originally Posted by Murra 

Well, if he did walk in around a council estate - where he had no business - then he would be spotted by people. If he lives there, he'd be in and out all the time.
And it wasn't just his family that were being moved in - he was being moved in with them. ]

Did you even read the previous page of posts including the following quote from the Sunday Independent

The family wanted to live again as a unit and efforts were made to house them together in Kilcoole, Redcross, and Rathnew. Angry protests from local residents in each village ensured that the efforts were abandoned. In despair, the woman finally told council officials that she was prepared to abandon her hopes of living with her husband in a family unit, provided she and her children could be housed. She even signed an agreement to the effect that she would not have her husband visit her or their children. A house was provided in a housing estate in Ashford.

Last Friday week, her belongings had already been moved into the house when local residents gathered to protest against her being housed. The distressed woman was taken away by ambulance, and her children were removed by relatives. Satisfied, the mob melted away. Two nights later, the house was torched, and all the woman's possessions were destroyed in the fire.

The damage was so severe that the adjoining house had to be evacuated. The tenant was an 88-year-old woman who was distraught and terrified; the house had been renovated and adapted for her at considerable expense to the taxpayer. Now she too is homeless, and the public money spent on her house is down the tubes. 

The mob targetted the wife and children AFTER she had agreed to break contact with her husband. The house was burned down AFTER she agreed to that. The Labour motion denying housing to those "who consort with" sex offenders was passed AFTER the house was burned down.

We are living in a sick and hysterical society. If you want to defend that society, then don't try to evade the issue by misrepresenting what is actually happening.

.........

• Kilbarry1 

[ Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach

Here is a proposal. How about when sex-offenders are released, they be forced to either live on islands with only their own kind of offenders or leave the State? There could then be no excuse for harrassing their innocent family members as they would no longer be living with the sex-offenders.  ]

Is this a joke? It is a violation of the rights of a wife and children to force them to live apart from their husband and father. In any case the mob threatened the wife and children even AFTER she promised to bar the husband from her home AND they then burned down their house including all of her personal belongings.

I again quote from last week's Sunday Independent:

Last Friday week, her belongings had already been moved into the house when local residents gathered to protest against her being housed. The distressed woman was taken away by ambulance, and her children were removed by relatives. Satisfied, the mob melted away. Two nights later, the house was torched, and all the woman's possessions were destroyed in the fire.

• merle haggard 

[  Originally Posted by bored and fussy 

How did the labour party deal with issues like this in the past. ]

I dont know . Maybe somebody should contact Emmet Stagg and ask him for his opinion .

• Kilbarry1 

[  Originally Posted by merle haggard 

I dont know . Maybe somebody should contact Emmet Stagg and ask him for his opinion . ]

Actually the hysteria about child abuse dates back to 1994 when Pat Rabbittte brought down the Government of Albert Reynolds by falsely suggesting that there was a conspiracy between Cardinal Daly and Attorney General to prevent the extradition of Father Brendan Smyth to Northern Ireland. Not only did Rabbitte get away with it; a special Super-Junior ministry was created for him in the new Government.

See "The Fall of the Government of Albert Reynolds [1994]"
Welcome to IrishSalem.com

There is a Russian proverb "A fish rots from the head" and the Wicklow mob is only copying the behaviour of its betters - except on the street rather than in Dail Eireann.

As for Emmet Stagg, his misadventure in the Phoenix Park was treated with great "compassion" by the media. Labour CREATE witch-hunts; they don't fall victims to them!

• merle haggard 

[ Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 

Actually the hysteria about child abuse dates back to 1994 when Pat Rabbittte brought down the Government of Albert Reynolds by falsely suggesting that there was a conspiracy between Cardinal Daly and Attorney General to prevent the extradition of Father Brendan Smyth to Northern Ireland. Not only did Rabbitte get away with it; a special Super-Junior ministry was created for him in the new Government.

See "The Fall of the Government of Albert Reynolds [1994]"
Welcome to IrishSalem.com

There is a Russian proverb "A fish rots from the head" and the Wicklow mob is only copying the behaviour of its betters - except on the street rather than in Dail Eireann.

As for Emmet Stagg, his misadventure in the Phoenix Park was treated with great "compassion" by the media. Labour CREATE witch-hunts; they don't fall victims to them! ]

Im still unsure as to what Deputy stagg was up to in the phoenix park but i do know for sure that many of the drug addicted and homeless young kids who were preyed upon by wealthy older men were and are well below the age of consent .

The targetting of innocent family members and children by this mob is child abuse in itself . In my view anyone physically , verbally or emotionally abusing innocent children over a crime they had no hand act or part in should be ineligible for council housing themselves

•  Kilbarry1 

[ Originally posted by Merle Haggard

I dont know . Maybe somebody should contact Emmet Stagg and ask him for his opinion . ]

[ Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 

... As for Emmet Stagg, his misadventure in the Phoenix Park was treated with great "compassion" by the media. Labour CREATE witch-hunts; they don't fall victims to them!  ]

The following extract from an article by Ryle Dwyer in the Irish Examiner, October 24, 2009 illustrates the above point. Dwyer is celebrating the fact that Irish people are no longer afraid of a "belt of the crozier".

One thing that Donal Óg need no longer fear ? a belt of the crozier | Irish Examiner

After Emmet Stagg admitted his gay involvement in Phoenix Park in March 1994, there were a few hours when the public reaction to the story could possibly have gone either way, but Pat Cox courageously took the lead on RTÉ’s Questions and Answers. "All that Emmet Stagg has said in his statement today is that he is a card-carrying member of the human race, and I stand with Emmet Stagg tonight, " Cox declared. It was a bold and courageous stand.

"There is some merciless bastard who let this story out," he added indignantly. "I want the Garda Commissioner to find out and to out who the rat is who brought this out into the public in this demeaning and irresponsible way."

It was a seminal moment in which Pat Cox provided decisive leadership. In his impromptu outrage he advanced the cause of tolerance and true freedom in this republic. It's wonderful that our politicians don't fear a "belt of the crozier". What a pity the ones in Wicklow are so afraid of the mob that they go along with a Labour motion that denies housing to family members who "consort with" a sex offender.

•  merle haggard 

As far as i can see the child abusers are the ones who are harassing and terrorising young children . Young children whom the labour party seem to have abandoned . We seem to have gone from Valley of the squinting windows to Valley of the broken windows. I guess thats progress

• Kilbarry1 

The family have been hounded out of Kilcoole, Redcross, Rathnew and Ashford. I think they are all in the Archdiocese of Dublin which covers most of Co. Wicklow as well. Ashford certainlly is and that is where their house was burned down.

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin has become a great hero of the liberal media because of the way he has dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse. He cannot make a speech without denouncing the evils of abuse and apologising for the way the Church dealt with them in the past. He even put pressure on Bishop Martin Drennan to resign even though NO criticism had been made of him in the Murphy Report. (Like the Wicklow mob, the Archbishop seems to believe in guilt by association.)

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, John Cooney, Kathy O'Beirne, Bishop Dermot O'Mahony

Would it be too much to ask the Archbishop to condemn the behaviour of the people who hound an innocent mother and her four children? The mob are abusing these innocents. Moreover the hysteria and fanaticism generated by the mob will rebound on real victims of child sexual abuse in the future. Cynicism is what normally follows after Hysteria.